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Old 28-09-2020, 09:28   #46
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

There are bigger deals than that one time incident, and I will qualify that statement in a bit.

The go fast cup boat, passed close aboard to the the ferry. Do I like the action of the cup boat skipper to cut it that close at that high speed. No, I do not. But, if skipper of the ferry was inside the race course of a major race, he would expect those types of situations and stay clear.

RACE MENTALITY : In this case the go fast skipper did not want to tack. Those foil, or what ever they call the new America's Cup boats are extremely fast, with a lot of mass and speed. A collision would like resulted in destruction of the race boat, perhaps the sinking of the holed ferry, injuries and death. That is a big deal.

Personally, I feel that some racers, no matter what category throw common sense and safety into the bin. But in all my years of professionally sailing Newport Bay, Calif, and being around all of the regattas and races from 30 to 50 boats and UP, I personally never had a collision.

But, I did my best to use situational awareness, planning ahead, and sailing knowledge to avoid them . It was not always possible due to the number of vessels racing in close quarters. Add in docks and slips, on both sides and mooring fields there was not much room to maneuver.

In Newport's crowded channels, that took some doing. There was no place to escape to stay totally clear.


On the busy the summer weekends, there were hundreds, of sail and power boaters, ferry boats, large sight seeing motor vessels, sailing club lesson boats , private sailing vessels, privately owned motor vessels, fishing vessels including crowed half day and day boats, College and high school lesson boats, stand up paddle boaters, kayaks, small rental sail boats, etc . the list goes on.

Actually ,, it went on for a few decades for me.

That is why, I say, that one instance of a go fast professionally skippered sailing vessel and a ferry is not a big deal .

And what was I doing out there in Newport Harbor on a Saturdayd and Sundays and during the week. Well, I was teaching basic and intermediate sailing on 30 foot plus boats to our Sailing Club Members. They had to complete 40 plus hours of structured on board sailing classes and pass a single handed check out on the 30 footers before qualifying to take our club boat out on their own. Add in coastal nav, and other seminars.

Advanced lessons were on 40 footers, but they did not start until 4:30 pm and we were down wind, reaching the 3.2 miles to depart the harbor entrance for
night sailing, fog prcedures, anchoring, sail changes, man overboard at sea procedures, and local knowledge to be able to spot the harbor entrance with all of the coastal land lights. Also, back then, they learned to track fathom lines using a depth souner to the sea buoy at the channel entrance, if caught in fog. No GPS.

I did not read all of the responses, but was that ferry on a normal passage, or was it packed full of sight seeing, race watchers on a charter ? If so, the skipper of that tour boat needed to stay clear of the marked race course.

Note: The sailing club was sold, our sailing became catalina passages, and international bare boat sailing, and moving to Kauai.

Life is easy for us nearing or in geezerdom.





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Old 28-09-2020, 09:50   #47
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Might has right....nonono:
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Old 28-09-2020, 10:31   #48
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

sailing boat was not overtaking. He dipped the stern, right thing to do
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Old 28-09-2020, 12:47   #49
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

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Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77 View Post
There are bigger deals than that one time incident, and I will qualify that statement in a bit.



The go fast cup boat, passed close aboard to the the ferry. Do I like the action of the cup boat skipper to cut it that close at that high speed. No, I do not. But, if skipper of the ferry was inside the race course of a major race, he would expect those types of situations and stay clear.



...



I did not read all of the responses, but was that ferry on a normal passage, or was it packed full of sight seeing, race watchers on a charter ? If so, the skipper of that tour boat needed to stay clear of the marked race course.



Note: The sailing club was sold, our sailing became catalina passages, and international bare boat sailing, and moving to Kauai.



Life is easy for us nearing or in geezerdom.











.

There is no racing yet. There is no race course. The AC boat was not racing. The ferry was on a regular route and the AC boats (American Magic and Team New Zealand alone for now) are just training.

The headline on the original article I linked was sensationalistic and not reflective of the actual collision risk. But it was useful to discuss Rules 13 and 18 and the applicability of local harbour regulations.

Agree with your last sentence.
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Old 28-09-2020, 14:05   #50
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Americas Cup teams are testing their boats in Aucklands Waitemata Harbour and the Hauraki Gulf for months now.

This was a nice view from the Waiheke Ferry.
Standard maneuver for the crew.
Nothing spectacular at all.

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Old 28-09-2020, 16:07   #51
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

The US and / or International Maritime Rules being referred to here as COLREGS have no application to this matter.

New Zealand Maritime Rules and Auckland Regional Council Bylaws apply.

The Auckland Council Bylaws state that collision avoidance rules will be those in the NZ Maritime Rules, Part 22.

In those rules section 22.13 (Overtaking) regulates this situation. NZ rules clearly state "any" overtaking vessel must give way. Regardless of how it is powered. Those rules also state that a vessel approaching from an angle more than 22.5 degrees aft of beam of another vessel is an overtaking vessel and that any subsequent change of bearing between the two vessels does not alter that fact.

That answers the OP's question, but in my opinion this was just another day on Auckland Harbour. I come from Wellington which is a much more civilised port and whenever I am in Auckland I think they are all crazy and have no idea what maritime rules are.
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Old 28-09-2020, 17:02   #52
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Im inclined to agree with all the others who say ..not a close call. I sail this harbour all the time and I know the ferrys criss cross constantly. The AC boats are out there practicing their manouvres and avoiding other boats in close quaters is part of the game. It wouldn't surprise me if they deliberately buzz the ferrys as part practice and part publicity.
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Old 28-09-2020, 17:06   #53
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

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Further to my post about the Oakland Estuary, for those who may not be familiar with SF Bay, as far as I know it's the ONLY place where ferries, including the high speed one from Vallejo, actually literally go out of their way to avoid pleasure craft.


In Boston Harbor the ferries are good about recreational craft. And in the inner harbor where the high speed ferries are limited to 10 knots itís entertaining to watch them weave through the throng of sailboats, ferries, the tug and barges, and tankers.
When they wind up to 30 knots they still avoid recreational boats.
Iíll guess that between commuter and tourist ferries there is a high speed ferry in the harbor every 15 minutes or less on a weekday.
I know a some of the captains and crew and they are very aware of whatís happening around them.
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Old 28-09-2020, 22:40   #54
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

So first observation is that it wasn't even close. Sailboat dipped the stern of the ferry with loads of room.


Second thought is that although it looks (from the wake) that the ferry altered sharply to stbd, the AC75 also originally altered to PORT (look at the wakes of the chase boats following the AC75). I think they were on a very close reciprocal course and they both changed course at the same time- the only problem being that that the AC75 went left instead of the usual right, probably anticipating that the ferry would hold their course. So now they were again on a collision course, and this time the AC75 just ducked the stern. Kinda the sailing equivalent to the little "dance" you sometimes do in a shopping aisle when you try and pass by someone and you both end up going the same direction.
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Old 29-09-2020, 00:44   #55
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

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Second thought is that although it looks (from the wake) that the ferry altered sharply to stbd, the AC75 also originally altered to PORT (look at the wakes of the chase boats following the AC75). I think they were on a very close reciprocal course and they both changed course at the same time- the only problem being that that the AC75 went left instead of the usual right, probably anticipating that the ferry would hold their course. So now they were again on a collision course, and this time the AC75 just ducked the stern. Kinda the sailing equivalent to the little "dance" you sometimes do in a shopping aisle when you try and pass by someone and you both end up going the same direction.
And this is why the stand on boat (the ferry in this case) is supposed to maintain course and speed until resolution of the situation, or when they judge that the give way boat is not making the appropriate maneuver to avoid collision.

In this case the overtaking AC boat must avoid the ferry and, whadda ya know, they did so, despite the unexpected (?) jog by the ferry.

I say the racers followed the COLREGS and exhibited competence.

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Old 29-09-2020, 01:54   #56
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Also, when youíre the fastest boat around it is easier for you to keep clear. American Magic would have been going twice as fast as the ferry.

I remember how scared I was as a front seat passenger in a float plane that was landing in Victoriaís Inner Harbour (British Columbia, Canada) one weekend afternoon. There was a lot of traffic of recreational boats of all sizes, speeds and courses, a high speed ferry entering, a car ferry leaving, and a couple of kayakers crossing the harbour. The pilot did a half circle to line up his landing and used that time to extrapolate everyonesí courses, then made his landing through the middle of it all going from about 80 knots on touchdown to 8 knots taxi speed in around 100 metres. Very impressive.

American Magicís second boat is being rigged and INEOS has just shipped (planed?) their second boat to Auckland. Not sure when the NZ second boat is due. Sure is going to get interesting around here soon.
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Old 29-09-2020, 02:44   #57
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

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And this is why the stand on boat (the ferry in this case) is supposed to maintain course and speed until resolution of the situation, or when they judge that the give way boat is not making the appropriate maneuver to avoid collision.

I'll give the ferry captain a bit of slack... if the situation we are hypothesizing is correct, they were less than 20 seconds away from hitting each other. Even if I'm the stand on boat, I'll be changing course to avoid a collision at that point.
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Old 29-09-2020, 03:05   #58
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

It looks to me like the AC boat was overtaking, so was give-way boat. The Ferry Captain got to thinking the AC boat was cutting it fine and altered sharply to Starboard (but didn't get on the ship's hooter.) making their courses parallel and lessening any impact. He probably swore a lot. The AC boat avoided a collision probably thinking in a racer mentality "We're miles away from them."
Possibly an infringement of etiquette by the AC boat?
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