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Old 13-10-2013, 10:42   #76
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Anchor tests have some limitations and should not be relied upon on their own, but this one was better than most.
You can see the results here:
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Ancho...hly%202006.pdf

You can read the full result yourself, but my interpretation is they rated the Bugel (genuine) a bit better than the Sarca (not Super Sarca)and a bit worse than the Delta, but close to both.

Not bad for such a simple anchor. If you are going to home make an anchor "simple" minimises the chances of mucking things up.

(And I feel its slightly better than the Delta)
Thinking the OP has it right. Maybe the thing to do is to take inspiration from or "optimize" the Rocna/Supreme/BŁgel designs by simply using quality instead of cheap materials. No point in reinventing the wheel.

Looks like the only real difference between the first one and the later two is the concave fluke. Depends on how think of plate you can roll but there are other ways of achieving that shape.
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Old 13-10-2013, 12:39   #77
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Most of us will not have any access to any type of armor steel, and if a local shop tried to order up a sheet they'd probably get a visit from DHS. Uncle Sam is extremely reluctant to let civilians deal in armor, armored vehicles, or armored houses in any way.

OTOH, Titanium plate is readily available if you don't mind the price.

"An engineer that specialised in this field (and a steel boat owner ) suggested "flame galvanising" was possible."
I think that is what is more commonly called "plasma spraying" or "plasma deposition". I've had some metal parts reinforced with this process. It is commonly done by shops that refinish rollers for printing presses and elevators. Finely powdered metal dust is introduced into a special torch, and that turns the metal into a plasma, not just liquid metal, which is turn is deposited on and bonded to a metal object. Typically a very hard or corrosion resistant layer is added to a weaker metal. On precision rollers, this is done to fill in any low spots so they can be repolished to perfect cylinders again.
The average welding shop will go "huh?" if you ask them, but the process is actually quite common.
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Old 13-10-2013, 17:06   #78
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

What interests me is a lightweight anchor. Having a lightweight multihull, I do not want hundreds of pounds of ground tackle onboard.
I think a fiberglass anchor is a good idea. Bigger, not heavier, yet stronger, than steel.
Google indicates nobody has done it. I will patent it, and sell them for $2,000 each
as the 'Nuevo Design'.
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Old 13-10-2013, 17:09   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
What interests me is a lightweight anchor. Having a lightweight multihull, I do not want hundreds of pounds of ground tackle onboard.
I think a fiberglass anchor is a good idea. Bigger, not heavier, yet stronger, than steel.
Google indicates nobody has done it. I will patent it, and sell them for $2,000 each
as the 'Nuevo Design'.
Does that price include the kellet that's going to be required?
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Old 13-10-2013, 17:11   #80
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
What interests me is a lightweight anchor. Having a lightweight multihull, I do not want hundreds of pounds of ground tackle onboard.
I think a fiberglass anchor is a good idea. Bigger, not heavier, yet stronger, than steel.
Google indicates nobody has done it. I will patent it, and sell them for $2,000 each
as the 'Nuevo Design'.
if you make it hollow it would float as well,and quickly convert to a sea-anchor,by draining out the water ballast
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Old 14-10-2013, 08:08   #81
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Oh look, another Bugel clone/copy selling itself unique and original but really looks like any other roll-bar anchor with some minor changes.

This guy, John H. Knox, credits himself with "invention of a completely new anchor design" that he has been perfecting and testing for the past ten years.

Says he's a retired chemistry professor, not sure how that qualifies him to be an anchor designer. I'm thinking yeah, anybody can DIY an anchor if they're motivated and have the resources.

I'd be a lot more interested in buying an anchor from any one of these guys if they had the humility to admit that all they have done was make improvements to Rolf Kazcirek's original Bugel design instead of claiming some kind of creative genius.

Give Rolf some credit, as far as I can tell he is the only real innovator and if he had only gotten patent protection for his innovation none of these guys would be in business.


The inventor - Knox Anchors - The top performing New Generation Anchor for safe and secure anchoring
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Old 14-10-2013, 08:26   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
Oh look, another Bugel clone/copy selling itself unique and original but really looks like any other roll-bar anchor with some minor changes.

This guy, John H. Knox, credits himself with "invention of a completely new anchor design" that he has been perfecting and testing for the past ten years.

Says he's a retired chemistry professor, not sure how that qualifies him to be an anchor designer. I'm thinking yeah, anybody can DIY an anchor if they're motivated and have the resources.

I'd be a lot more interested in buying an anchor from any one of these guys if they had the humility to admit that all they have done was make improvements to Rolf Kazcirek's original Bugel design instead of claiming some kind of creative genius.

Give Rolf some credit, as far as I can tell he is the only real innovator and if he had only gotten patent protection for his innovation none of these guys would be in business.

The inventor - Knox Anchors - The top performing New Generation Anchor for safe and secure anchoring
Looking at the website I'd be concerned if the amateur attempts on it are similar to when they worked on the anchor.

No price ranges and no size ranges.
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Old 14-10-2013, 08:35   #83
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
Oh look, another Bugel clone/copy selling itself unique and original but really looks like any other roll-bar anchor with some minor changes.

This guy, John H. Knox, credits himself with "invention of a completely new anchor design" that he has been perfecting and testing for the past ten years.

Says he's a retired chemistry professor, not sure how that qualifies him to be an anchor designer. I'm thinking yeah, anybody can DIY an anchor if they're motivated and have the resources.

I'd be a lot more interested in buying an anchor from any one of these guys if they had the humility to admit that all they have done was make improvements to Rolf Kazcirek's original Bugel design instead of claiming some kind of creative genius.

Give Rolf some credit, as far as I can tell he is the only real innovator and if he had only gotten patent protection for his innovation none of these guys would be in business.


The inventor - Knox Anchors - The top performing New Generation Anchor for safe and secure anchoring
My bad, looks like credit for the roll-bar goes to Peter Bruce in the seventies.
https://sites.google.com/site/waynor...ration-anchors
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Old 14-10-2013, 08:43   #84
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

I agree the Bugel was one of the most innovative anchors. Many of our modern anchors are variations on this fundamental design.
However we have seen a lot of improvement since the Bugel and I suspect there is more to come.

Other innovate anchors in recent years have been the Spade and the Ocťane. The latter never worked well but spin offs like the Manson Boss show promise.

The Knox anchor is another variation on the fundamental design of the Bugel. The designer is well respected in the anchoring field and his contribution should not be dismissed.
Minor tweaks can have significant effects (good and bad).

The difficulty is getting some independent evaluation of these alternative designs.
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Old 14-10-2013, 09:58   #85
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

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The difficulty is getting some independent evaluation of these alternative designs.
That would be great. But since it doesn't seem that people believe any of the past tests all it would result in is a new round of the same arguments with some new names.
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Old 14-10-2013, 10:20   #86
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

If you want to be successful, do what the successful people do. I got a sheet of half inch 50,000 psi steel and did an almost exact copy of a mason supreme. Its not copyright or patent infringement unless I sell it, I hope . I built 2 for personal use. No need to reinvent the wheel. Total investment - $300.
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Old 14-10-2013, 10:33   #87
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Here it is while I was building it.
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Old 14-10-2013, 10:38   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt sachs View Post
If you want to be successful, do what the successful people do. I got a sheet of half inch 50,000 psi steel and did an almost exact copy of a mason supreme. Its not copyright or patent infringement unless I sell it, I hope . I built 2 for personal use. No need to reinvent the wheel. Total investment - $300.
It's a common myth that a patent can only be infringed by selling something. But the law in the US is clear that many other acts are also prohibited such as keeping, making or inducing others to infringe a patented device.
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Old 14-10-2013, 10:39   #89
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt sachs View Post
If you want to be successful, do what the successful people do. I got a sheet of half inch 50,000 psi steel and did an almost exact copy of a mason supreme. Its not copyright or patent infringement unless I sell it, I hope . I built 2 for personal use. No need to reinvent the wheel. Total investment - $300.
Manson's are Bis Plate at 800 MPa (116,000 psi) so using 50000 psi (344 MPa) steel is worse that the bent Rocna with 420 MPa steel. Rocna started with Bis plate then downgraded to 420 then bent a few before going with 620 MPa steel and called it good enough.

Of course if you used 1/2" plate for a small anchor it could be fine but if you made an 80 pound copy the shank would likely bend like a pretzel at some point.

Fair winds to you (no I really mean that when on anchor Fair winds).

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Old 14-10-2013, 10:58   #90
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
The designer is well respected in the anchoring field and his contribution should not be dismissed.
Minor tweaks can have significant effects (good and bad).
He is also well-respected in analytical chemistry, where he tweaked and modified a technique that led to a break-through and commercial success.

Not that that matters a whit in anchoring - just pointing out similarities of thinking and approach.

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