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Old 13-10-2013, 05:38   #61
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

i WANT 3 more huge bruce anchors so i can anchor like a oil rig.
i knew someone once looooong ago who used to anchor by filling a pail, 5 gallon, with water from under boat, then throw that and some frayed rope overboard.....then would swim to shore...when he got back,invariably, his boat was on golf course property , safe and sound, high and dry..

yes i did mean rope. there is a difference between good line and old frayed rope....lol
no, he never used a top on the bucket.. was an open bucket anchor.
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Old 13-10-2013, 05:39   #62
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

You guys kill me!
Like 90% of the shrimp industry uses home made anchors! In Key West Harbor, there are literally thousands of lost anchors from shrimpers; some are 50+ years old! Most are still in useable condition..... In fact most of the live aboard "moorings" are nothing but three of these old shrimper anchors I arranged in a triangle to a swivel and pendant.

BTW, why no mention of bronze? I have a bronze CQR style on my CAL, it is a ZERO maintenance item for me
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Old 13-10-2013, 05:50   #63
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
You guys kill me!
Like 90% of the shrimp industry uses home made anchors! In Key West Harbor, there are literally thousands of lost anchors from shrimpers; some are 50+ years old! Most are still in useable condition..... In fact most of the live aboard "moorings" are nothing but three of these old shrimper anchors I arranged in a triangle to a swivel and pendant.

BTW, why no mention of bronze? I have a bronze CQR style on my CAL, it is a ZERO maintenance item for me
I mentioned bronze in my first post, a totally great material. Monel might also be worth consideration.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monel
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Old 13-10-2013, 06:03   #64
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

I made an anchor out of a cinderblock with cotton clothes line when younger. I lived near a stream that had good smallmouth bass fishing in the faster moving rapids.The problem was positioning my canoe at the upstream edge so I could work a line into the fast moving water below, so by deploying my cinderblock I was nicely positioned and feeling quite smug. But then..... my anchor started to drag and I was in the rapids when "the anchor" wedged between 2 boulders while my canoe was made fast at one end the rushing water created a wild oscillation that flung my fishing gear and paddles into the froth and before long I was ejected too.
No fish that day. I use a Manson Supreme nowadays.


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Old 13-10-2013, 07:37   #65
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

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Originally Posted by JonJo View Post

But a recent anchor poll suggest that for CF:

11% use a CQR
10% use a Delta
12% use a Bruce
6% use a Danforth
and
10% use something that does not seem to be defined as New Generation.
I think those percentages are what people have and less of what people use. What I mean by that is most on CF are not yet cruising, never have cruised or never intend to cruise. Probably bought the boat with said anchor. The small percentage that go will most likely buy the insurance of a good anchor with good holding power...I did.
I'm on the border now waiting for hurricane season to end. There are about a half a dozen here waiting also...4 of the 6 have the new generation anchors.
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Old 13-10-2013, 08:12   #66
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

i actually USE my bruce and WANT 3 more.
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Old 13-10-2013, 08:34   #67
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Interesting to see an article by Peter Smith about the development of so called new generation anchors linked below.

I say interesting because when I was looking at a Rocna lines drawing there were all kinds of comments and copyright warnings about clones and copies which is funny to me as the Rocna and Manson were both very clearly influenced by their predecessor, the Bügel.

I had never heard of this anchor before, Peter Smith identifies it as the first of the new generation anchors (read the one he chose to clone or copy, take inspiration from, whatever) and suggests it wasn't commercialized successfully and that it's simple design lent itself too easily to DIY reproduction to be a money maker. Go figure, no money in keeping it simple stupid.

Of course he didn't "copy" the Bügel, he "optimized" it's design. You'll note the warnings I referred to at the Rocna site were copyright warnings, not patent notifications.


New Generation Anchors: Explained and Compared
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Old 13-10-2013, 08:55   #68
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

The Bugel both genuine and copy is popular in Europe.

It is a good anchor (a bit better than a Delta but not as good as the sophisticated roll bar designs) has very simple construction. This make it ideal for amateur construction.
However there are loads of very cheap galvanised copies. These can be purchased for not much more than the cost of constructing it yourself.
The original in SS can I think still be purchased, but there are better anchors for the price.

If you can find a good copy (check the geometry) they an be a bargain. I would encourage anyone embarking on long distance cruising to get the best anchor possible, but this advice ignores some hard economic realities.
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Old 13-10-2013, 09:05   #69
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?
Noelex wrote:

I don't think stainless steel is such a stupid anchor material for a long distance cruising boat. When you are anchoring full time, as I do, the life of the galvanising on a steel anchor is only in the order of three or four years. With the Heath and safety laws it is getting harder to find companies that will galvanise an anchor. With some anchors such as the Spade its impossible. Although the life of these anchors that cannot be re-galvanised can be extended with paint they are still an expensive proposition in terms of yearly cost for a cruising sailor

The drawbacks of reduced strength have been mentioned, but SS does have the advantages that the leading edge of the flukes can be made very sharp which significantly helps anchor performance (if this is done on a galvanised anchor the galvanising tends to wear quickly).

If the anchor is deformed many manufacturers will replace them. In reality problems are rare especially for cruising sailors that tend to upsize their anchors significantly.

Given the small contribution of the cost of raw material to the finished product SS anchors should be more reasonable cost wise. I don't want bling. Forget the polishing.

Aluminium in many ways should be the ideal anchor material. The lower density enables the balance and toe weight to much better than with a steel anchor. This promises improved performance even before the possibility of utilising a larger blade area is considered. It can be sharpened like SS and should not corrode.

Unfortunately anchor manufacturers have chosen to adapt existing anchor designs sometimes with great results ( like the Fortress), but often with dismal failure (like the aluminium Spade)

It needs a manufacturer to design an anchor to utilise the lower density and higher strength/ weight ratio of aluminium from the ground up (married with lead where weight is needed). It certainly has the promise of a higher performing anchor that is easier on the winch, gives less weight on the bow and never needs re-galvanisng.

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Rex Wrote;

Well Noelex you are pretty much on the ball, for the last 18 months we have been experimenting re stainless toes on anchors, after much research finding a composite stainless with a mix that will weld and have the galvanizing successfully take to it we have done it, stainless toes are in all of the new production line of Excel anchors over the last 8 months, we are so proud of this as it is a first in production anchors and I believe with testing over the last twelve months we have perfected it.

Yes we have lodged a patent that will not be publicized for some time yet but it has been lodged, yes the stainless toes do not rust, they allow a much sharper leading edge compared to a galvanized one for the reasons you have mentioned, more will be learnt about our new developments at the next leading boat show.

Further many have mentioned regalvanising and the problem of lead, the Excel has a sealed cast toe so if and when galvanizing is required there is no re leading required.

Regards Rex.

CEO of Anchor Right Australia.
Rex- I missed this in my first read through of the Peter Smith article I mentioned before. He says he thinks your SACRA anchor is "really only useful for picnic anchoring" maybe you care to comment?

New Generation Anchors: Explained and Compared
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Old 13-10-2013, 09:15   #70
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
The Bugal both genuine and copy is popular in Europe.

It is a good anchor (a bit better than a Delta but not as good as the sophisticated roll bar designs) has very simple construction. This make it ideal for amateur construction.
However there are loads of very cheap galvanised copies. These can be purchased for not much more than the cost of constructing it yourself.
The original in SS can I think still be purchased, but there are better anchors for the price.

If you can find a good copy (check the geometry) they an be a bargain. I would encourage anyone embarking on long distance cruising to get the best anchor possible, but this advice ignores some hard economic realities.
I understand from the linked article that "bügelankor" in German means "handle" or "roll-bar" anchor referring to this prominate feature of the design.

When you say "it" is a good design but not as good as the more sophisticated roll bar designs what are you referring to as "it"? The Delta, which does not have a roll bar? Or some other anchor?
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Old 13-10-2013, 09:16   #71
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Galvanizing has been a problem for higher strength steels. Some have indicated that hot dipping G70 chain can reduce its strength by 20% while others (in the industry) say less than 5%. In this thread there was a comment that armor steel could not be galvanized.

Often in contemplating home made we think of greasy garages and rube dudes crudely welding plate with old coat hangers for stick, cigarette hanging half out the mouth, crack visible above the old jeans.

On the other hand there are a few who have access to other technologies. For example a friend of mine is into high end vapor deposition in his garage. He makes a tidy sum doing one offs sputtering odd metals onto widgets. Not enough to quit his day job but enough to pay for materials, electricity and more toys. Plus he enjoys it.

With that thought in mind I present a translation of a German paper abstract where some researcher is looking into sputtering zinc for car parts. No hot dipping, no high temps to mess up tempering etc. And being that it is being developed for making cars it couuld become a very affordable technology for zinc coatings.

----

The intensive use of de-icing salts and the need for weight reduction of cars by use of thinner, high strength steels call for an improved corrosion protection of car body parts. Therefore today';s car manufacturing uses steel sheets which are precoated by zinc and thus cathodically protected. The present study examines sputtering as an environmentally friendly alternative coating process which allows the deposition of coatings that can not be realised by currently used hot dipping or electrodeposition processes. Magnetron sputtering and ion beam sputtering deposition experiments delivering pure zinc and zinc alloy coatings have been carried out. Following this, the obtained coatings were examined with regard to their morphologies, chemical composition, crystallographic structures, mechanical properties and corrosion performance. The experiments showed that the morphologies of sputtered zinc films depend very strongly on the sputter parameters. Particularly the relatively low normalised substrate temperature Ts/Tm, i.e. the ratio between the temperature of deposition and the melting point of the deposited metal or alloy, plays an important role in the morphology development. At higher deposition temperatures, the obtained deposits deviated from those predicted by the structure zone models and even consisted of whisker like structures. The zinc alloy coatings condensed in unknown, metastable or even amorphous phases. The obtained films showed properties similar or better than conventionally deposited ones. In particular the alloyed zinc coatings showed promising perspectives due to their significantly better corrosion performances.
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Old 13-10-2013, 09:27   #72
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
When you say "it" is a good design but not as good as the more sophisticated roll bar designs what are you referring to as "it"? The Delta, which does not have a roll bar? Or some other anchor?
By "it" I mean the Bugel.

I introduced the Delta only as a well known anchor to provide a reference point for those not familiar with the Bugel.
I would rate the Bugel as better anchor than the Delta, but significantly below the Rocna and MS.
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Old 13-10-2013, 09:47   #73
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
By "it" I mean the Bugal.

I introduced the Delta only as a well known anchor to provide a reference point for those not familiar with the Bugal.
I would rate the Bugal as better anchor than the Delta, but significantly below the Rocna and MS.
Opps, my dumb. Thought you were saying the Bügel didn't have the roll-bar which didn't make sense to me. Cheers!
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Old 13-10-2013, 10:23   #74
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

Anchor tests have some limitations and should not be relied upon on their own, but this one was better than most.
You can see the results here:
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Ancho...hly%202006.pdf

You can read the full result yourself, but my interpretation is they rated the Bugel (genuine) a bit better than the Sarca (not Super Sarca)and a bit worse than the Delta, but close to both.

Not bad for such a simple anchor. If you are going to home make an anchor "simple" minimises the chances of mucking things up.

(And I feel its slightly better than the Delta)
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Old 13-10-2013, 10:34   #75
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Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?

I have found this thread to be most interesting.The materials science is eye opening. I was listening to a program on the wireless regarding the alloys used in modern jet engines. They were saying, but for the cooling the alloy parts in these engines are operating above their melting points, at least this is what I was led to understand.
Thanks for the contributions here, this little pig is learning stuff.
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