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13-03-2014, 04:28
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#1666
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Australian
Boat: Sense 43
Posts: 13
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
I'm not an expert, but here's my contribution. We sailed our Sense 43 from France, to Malta via Sardinia and Italy in 2012 then back to Sicily and up the East Coast of Italy to Venice and throughout Croatia to Montenegro in 2013. One of the things I wanted to do was take out adequate insurance - and I don't mean the type you pay monthly. For me, spending a little extra on a one size bigger anchor is insurance. Who knows till you need it. We're cruising not racing so the small extra weight is nothing in the scale of things. I decided to go for a Sarca Excel No.5 after doing all the reading and research. Frankly our choice has paid dividends as far as I'm concerned.
I also upgraded to 100 metres of chain (10mm). The Delta suppled with the boat became our spare anchor and that sits on 30 metres of 10mm chain plus 100 metres of warp.
Now, we're moving up to an Oceanis 48 and it's a no brainer to go for another Excel. The No.5 should just about be in range according to the manufacturers website table (Anchorright.com.au). However, we're at the top end at 14.6T (12.6T of boat + 1T of 'stuff' and 1T of diesel and fuel when loaded). So, I'm ordering the No.6 since it’s not so much that the No.5 won’t hold, but that the build strength wouldn't leave much room in a storm situation. The No 6 Excels builds strength is considerably higher than the five so its for this reason they rarely having a shank bend according to the manufacturer.
So, I'm for bigger is better.
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13-03-2014, 06:46
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#1667
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Duluth, MN
Boat: Morgan 383
Posts: 129
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Much of my cruising experience has been in areas of poor water visibility. Therefore we consider anchoring a "faith based activity".
I disagree with eyschulam about his suggestion for tax free status for anchors, etc. There really should be a government subsidy. The larger the anchor, the greater the subsidy. (It's a joke son.)
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13-03-2014, 07:50
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#1668
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 15,168
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinW
The No 6 Excels builds strength is considerably higher than the five so its for this reason they rarely having a shank bend according to the manufacturer.
So, I'm for bigger is better.
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Congratulations on the new boat. I agree with the BIB philosophy although 30kg is not very oversized for a 48 foot yacht.
You are unlikely to ever bend the shank on the Excel
There have been some problems with bent tips on the Sarca and Super Sarca anchors. The Excel is a different construction but it also still has a fine tip. This helps setting, but it is a bit more vulnerable to bending, particularly just at the tip. I have seen quite a few Sarca anchors with this problem but only a couple of cases in the relatively newer Excel. Time will tell how it holds up, but over sizing will reduce the risk of problems.
The Anchor Right anchors are covered with a lifetime guarantee and I think the compromise of a thinner tip which will cut through weed and hard substrates is a worthwhile trade off, but a beneficial side effect of BIB, as you mention, is stronger construction. Even better this achieved with an improvement, rather than any loss of performance.
Improved tip strength rather than shank strength is the the major construction benefit in going bigger with the Sarca and Sarca Excel, but nevertheless BIB makes the anchor stronger as well as improving the holding, as it does with all anchors
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13-03-2014, 14:11
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#1669
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 435
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman
I proclaim anchoring and everything associated with it a new belief based entity and a religion. All those who believe (whatever they believe) should petition the government for a tax free status for anchors and related equipment.
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Those items are tax free in many states like Oregon. I think I shall apply for a government research grant to look into the effect anchoring has on the marine life in popular anchorages....or something like that
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13-03-2014, 16:03
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#1670
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Australian
Boat: Sense 43
Posts: 13
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77
Congratulations on the new boat. I agree with the BIB philosophy although 30kg is not very oversized for a 48 foot yacht.
You are unlikely to ever bend the shank on the Excel
There have been some problems with bent tips on the Sarca and Super Sarca anchors. The Excel is a different construction but it also still has a fine tip. This helps setting, but it is a bit more vulnerable to bending, particularly just at the tip. I have seen quite a few Sarca anchors with this problem but only a couple of cases in the relatively newer Excel. Time will tell how it holds up, but over sizing will reduce the risk of problems.
The Anchor Right anchors are covered with a lifetime guarantee and I think the compromise of a thinner tip which will cut through weed and hard substrates is a worthwhile trade off, but a beneficial side effect of BIB, as you mention, is stronger construction. Even better this achieved with an improvement, rather than any loss of performance.
Improved tip strength rather than shank strength is the the major construction benefit in going bigger with the Sarca and Sarca Excel, but nevertheless BIB makes the anchor stronger as well as improving the holding, as it does with all anchors
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Good feedback on size choice Noelex 77 ... I considered the size / weight trade off carefully. The table on the Anchorright website shows N0.6 suitable for boats up to 21T and 17m ... we're 14.6T max and 14.7m so I considered this my 'insurance' factor (the No.5 goes up to 15T and 15m by the way). One of the other aspect of modern cruising boats that I think we all enjoy more and more is their ability to get us from A to B quicker than the old days. When I crossed the Atlantic/Pacific in 1981 on a Roberts 34 we were in raptures if we averaged 4 knots on a good day, and of course it took us longer ... So, weight was also a consideration in my mind - I even went for the Ultralight dinghy rather than my preferred 'Classic' Highfield with the extra aluminium floor. In fact I will be carrying 4 anchors onboard ... the Delta supplied, The new No.6, my old No.5 since I can't bear to part with it, and a Fortress.
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13-03-2014, 17:39
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#1671
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: costa rica
Boat: kelly peterson 44
Posts: 66
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
although weight is important the trick to anchoring safely is your anchor rode if you have a a 25kg anchor with 10ft of chain rode verses a 25kg anchor with 200ft of chain rode the afore mentioned will hold better using 5 to 1 ratio of rode to depth under normal conditions is a good rule of thumb its the rode that holds the vessel as the chain catenary moves up and down with the vessel taking the shock out of the pull on the anchor whose purpose is to keep the catenary in place. the type of anchor is what is best suited for your use in regards to holding grounds sand, mud or shell
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13-03-2014, 18:50
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#1672
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 15,168
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpatter894
although weight is important the trick to anchoring safely is your anchor rode if you have a a 25kg anchor with 10ft of chain rode verses a 25kg anchor with 200ft of chain rode the afore mentioned will hold better using 5 to 1 ratio of rode to depth under normal conditions
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The latter weighs about 5x as much so there should be significant differences.
In practice the holding in strong wind is only marginally improved with the all chain rode. The effects of catanery disappear as the forces rise, but there are other benefits particularly in chafe resistance which is why most cruising sailors follow your advice.
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13-03-2014, 22:48
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#1673
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cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77
Congratulations on the new boat. I agree with the BIB philosophy although 30kg is not very oversized for a 48 foot yacht.
You are unlikely to ever bend the shank on the Excel
There have been some problems with bent tips on the Sarca and Super Sarca anchors. The Excel is a different construction but it also still has a fine tip. This helps setting, but it is a bit more vulnerable to bending, particularly just at the tip. I have seen quite a few Sarca anchors with this problem but only a couple of cases in the relatively newer Excel. Time will tell how it holds up, but over sizing will reduce the risk of problems.
The Anchor Right anchors are covered with a lifetime guarantee and I think the compromise of a thinner tip which will cut through weed and hard substrates is a worthwhile trade off, but a beneficial side effect of BIB, as you mention, is stronger construction. Even better this achieved with an improvement, rather than any loss of performance.
Improved tip strength rather than shank strength is the the major construction benefit in going bigger with the Sarca and Sarca Excel, but nevertheless BIB makes the anchor stronger as well as improving the holding, as it does with all anchors
Rex Wrote:
Fair dinkum Noelex, isn’t it time you give it up, Anchor Right are not coming to steal your thunder anytime soon therefore I won’t be advertising anytime soon on your forum.
A man of your expertise would no doubt have influence on some, really bent toes on our anchors, what next, if you take the time to look you will see the toes on both Sarca and Excel are turned down as part of their design, maybe you should make the same comment on Ultra?
Never the less there are many, many thousands of Sarca anchors distributed worldwide over twenty plus years, surely you will find the odd bent toe, surely you will find the odd unhappy customer that’s life.
Excels for your information are manufactured from bisaloy steel, further they are filled with cast steel, show me a photo of an Excel or it didn’t happen?
If you visit NZ you could be forgiven that both of our anchors were designed and manufactured there, you would be bumping your head in every Marina on either an Excel or Super Sarca, yes and this in the land of the great white cloud, if you remember they were going to bury us with their concave designs, yes we are doing very well , much better with our bigger new Factory.
Regards Rex.
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14-03-2014, 00:00
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#1674
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cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
I almost forgot Noelex,
As a avid contributor I would think congratulations from your forum are in order, we have recently won the BIA Boating Industry Award for an Australian Manufacturer of the year, on another note if you see a bent Sarca leave a card with my contact and I will replace it.
Regards Rex.
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14-03-2014, 01:06
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#1675
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 15,168
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Congratulations on the award.
Here are a few photos I have taken of Sarca, Super Sarca and Sarca Excel
Bear in mind any anchor can bend.
EDIT:
Photos removed to give Rex a chance to respond.
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14-03-2014, 02:19
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#1676
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cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Knoelex thank you for your congratulations, funny I congratulate you on your mission---sorry holiday.
You have been a busy man, are you sure you do not have an agenda, one would have though when posting a manufactures product would have had the curtsey to check and photo graph all of the brand names to make sure they are the original, this so as to make sure they are not discrediting a company’s name over copies, make no mistake in the photo’s most are copies.
Remember Sarca have been selling in great numbers now for twenty plus years, plenty of time for copies, probably why we have not had recalls as such on our warranty, the design must be popular though for you to have collected so many samples.
As you can see where is the reinforcement that runs through the toe? This is why it is so necessary to make sure you are getting an original.
The only sarca s that doesn’t have this reinforcement are small runabouts, one photo shows the toe has been completely cut of or not made with one, zoom it up and you will see there is no reinforcement.
AS FAR AS THE EXCEL GOES, TERRIBLE PHOTO it looks normal to me, you may have to go back and check the angle to speck’s
You amaze me though, most people go on holidays to holiday, you must come over here to photo graph bent Sarca copies? Well you keep saying, reporting the lack of Sarca designs yet you have so many, must have been a long and arduous and targeted hunt for you to find so many, Maybe because you have photographed the same anchor several times, not much time being left for holidaying.
Never mind you are very convincing.
Regards Rex
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14-03-2014, 02:43
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#1677
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Congo
The fact that you spend so much effort attacking Noelex77 in your latest post does you absolutely no credit.
You tell the guy to post some proof, and when he does, you scorn and ridicule him for doing exactly what you asked.
I don't know what your problem is, but it is squarely yours, and no-one else's, it seems to me.
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14-03-2014, 03:03
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#1678
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 201
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by congo
Knoelex thank you for your congratulations, funny I congratulate you on your mission---sorry holiday.
You have been a busy man, are you sure you do not have an agenda, one would have though when posting a manufactures product would have had the curtsey to check and photo graph all of the brand names to make sure they are the original, this so as to make sure they are not discrediting a company’s name over copies, make no mistake in the photo’s most are copies.
Remember Sarca have been selling in great numbers now for twenty plus years, plenty of time for copies, probably why we have not had recalls as such on our warranty, the design must be popular though for you to have collected so many samples.
As you can see where is the reinforcement that runs through the toe? This is why it is so necessary to make sure you are getting an original.
The only sarca s that doesn’t have this reinforcement are small runabouts, one photo shows the toe has been completely cut of or not made with one, zoom it up and you will see there is no reinforcement.
AS FAR AS THE EXCEL GOES, TERRIBLE PHOTO it looks normal to me, you may have to go back and check the angle to speck’s
You amaze me though, most people go on holidays to holiday, you must come over here to photo graph bent Sarca copies? Well you keep saying, reporting the lack of Sarca designs yet you have so many, must have been a long and arduous and targeted hunt for you to find so many, Maybe because you have photographed the same anchor several times, not much time being left for holidaying.
Never mind you are very convincing.
Regards Rex
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Ty Congo/Rex for proving an excellent guide addressing "How Not to Act as a Commercial Vendor on CF"
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14-03-2014, 03:18
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#1679
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cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Andrew Troup wrote:
congo
e fact that you spend so much effort attacking Noelex77 in your latest post does you absolutely no credit.
You tell the guy to post some proof, and when he does, you scorn and ridicule him for doing exactly what you asked.
I don't know what your problem is, but it is squarely yours, and no-one else's, it seems to me.
Rex Wrote:
Well Andrew We all see things differently, Noelex makes a statement that is not substantiated, I ask him to prove it, after all he is talking about our reputation, no problems with photos but after a closer inspection there is only one genuine Anchor Right anchor , that is the excel . the toe is turned down as to specks, some of the copy Sarca’s don’t have slots, some don’t have rear braces and the one with e toe cut of is missing the reinforcement running from the underside of the shank to the toe, in fact they are all missing this reinforcement.
So if you are going to provide evidence due to a statement on someone’s product surely it is not too much to expect they make sure they are genuine.
We have a reputation second to none and do not want it muddied by sloppy work on anyone’s part, as for me you are welcome to think whatever, the product at the end of the day is what counts , many are hung from fabricated evidence.
Regards Rex.
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14-03-2014, 04:26
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#1680
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cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
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Re: Anchors - Bigger is Better ?
Sondor wrote:
Ty Congo/Rex for proving an excellent guide addressing "How Not to Act as a Commercial Vendor on CF
Rex Wrote:
Well it is not my nature or intention to ridicule any one, I would clearly like to know where these anchors have been photographed so as to follow up the source of these copies, not just for the credibility issue of our product but for the end user thinking he has a pretty sound design, so if you read this Noelex please advise.
Noelex is very influential and has many supporters, he is also familiar with all of our designs, his keen eye would easily pick up the missing slots, his professionalism would clearly steer him to look for I.D. Genuine product, he would also know that by posting those misleading photo’s it could have consequences for Anchor Right Australia, if there is no agenda then why would you do it?
I truly believe an apology and removing the photos would be of value to all.
Regards.
Rex.
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