Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by conachair

Any advise?

Seems to be quite a lot of common ground between the link and posts on here.

Sent from my SGP312 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I agree that there is common ground - so why disparage, To suggest they are the only reliable source takes away from their own credibility - though I accept they do have a commercial motive.

Jonathan

[sailorboy1]

[QUOTE=JonJo;1435296

Check Points 19 and 20.
[/QUOTE]


Point 19 says this thread was a waste of time!

"Be sceptical about what you read about anchoring on forums since much of the commentary is based on very little real world experience and it is difficult to tell who knows what they are writing about and who is simply parroting “forum wisdom”. Also, forum pundits love to make things more complicated, particularly around anchoring, than they really are."

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

"Be sceptical about what you read about anchoring on forums since much of the commentary is based on very little real world experience and it is difficult to tell who knows what they are writing about and who is simply parroting “forum wisdom”. Also, forum pundits love to make things more complicated, particularly around anchoring, than they really are."

So true.
We have a few here that will take a whole page of text to tell you how to boil water, but never tell you to turn the stove on.

[darylat8750]

"Ask what time it is and some one will build you a watch." That's ok, I may learn some thing about gears or springs (or batteries?!) that I don't know.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

"Ask what time it is and some one will build you a watch." That's ok, I may learn some thing about gears or springs (or batteries?!) that I don't know.

True, but if you do not have the zinkoyd cravisstat, you will never be able to build one yourself.

And then you realize that a Sundial would have worked just as well.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

True, but if you do not have the zinkoyd cravisstat, you will never be able to build one yourself.

Hmmmm..... But he can not realize that he needs one... And use turbulent silioxide instead... And what be the use of Sundial then..?...

[jnrdafoe]

My bigger is better anchor choice was mostly made by other people.
Our 5 ton 31' sailboat came with a 35# original Bruce anchor. It was the next size heavier than recommended. The previous owner never used it but we did through out Northern Lake Michigan for a decade of summer anchoring. The Bruce seamed to set ok but in anything but an ideal holding clay type bottom it would move. Setting quick only to continue to move doesn't mean holding to me. It looked to me like it didn't have resistance designed into it. I'm not an engineer, it just my opinion.

Our next boat came with a new generation hoop style anchor. Brand new, with the label still on it. It was the size recommend for an 11 ton 41' sailboat. The design seems good with a large surface area to catch material and create holding. I did consult with the manufacturer about our plans to coastal cruise and anchor as often as possible. He kindly recommended the next heavier anchor they produce, a 60# and all chain rode.

I was grateful for the advice but I wanted an anchor that was not only heavy but simple, without a hoop, that was designed to force itself in and create resistance at the same time. In my opinion the Sarca Excel answers those requirements. With its tapered edges it starts biting in. Its compound tip angles and wedge shaped weight it forces the tip in. The body continues to force the tip down and start creating resistance at the same time. Best of all it is mounted on a heavy, reinforced stock that doesn't look like it will give any time soon!
We've anchored in the same places that we did with our Bruce and slept much better. We've had 30kt winds in St James Bay and passing front wind shifts to test the holding power. We weren't the only ones that stayed but more dragged than didn't that night. We had to learn a technique, from designer Rex Francis, to start the Excel into heavy grass and it works. We have been secure any place we've anchored in the last 6 months and 3000 miles from the great lakes to Florida because of the Sarca Excel.
I know everyone has the best anchor and we all have an opinion. In my opinion, I have the best anchor for the most conditions I've encounter in our size boat.

[JonJo]

jnrdafoe,

You omit to mention what size Excel and it would be interesting to know what sort and size of chain you are using.

How on earth did you manage to buy an excel in America?

Jonathan

[bfloyd4445]

Well put. Have you tested this anchor under storm conditions? I've been dropping the hook for a lot of years and have tried most of the different designs finding none of them foolproof. What I have learned is that if the anchor dosent have a pivot so the shaft which connects to the rode at the blade end that can move from side to side in a heavy blow it will eventually slowly walk your vessel away from your original spot. The old Danforth anchor I find works better than many of these high tech hooks sold now and always have one aboard for a back up. They are cheap, light and easy to stow.

[jnrdafoe]

I bought the 66#. It was the closest to a 60# they produce.
I bought a 150' of G4 5/16" chain and use 1/2" 8 brait as a snubber.
As for getting the Excel to the states, Rex went above and beyond when a deal with a previous distributor broke down. Both he & Joy were right there!

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

Well put. Have you tested this anchor under storm conditions? I've been dropping the hook for a lot of years and have tried most of the different designs finding none of them foolproof. What I have learned is that if the anchor dosent have a pivot so the shaft which connects to the rode at the blade end that can move from side to side in a heavy blow it will eventually slowly walk your vessel away from your original spot. The old Danforth anchor I find works better than many of these high tech hooks sold now and always have one aboard for a back up. They are cheap, light and easy to stow.

I might misunderstand but what your observation suggests is that as the shank and of both the Danforth and Fortress move, with relation to the rest of the anchor (so they move left to right at the crown) then as the wind veers the articulation of the shank allows the fluke itself to stay in the same place. You further suggest that as other anchors (excluding the CQR) does not have this articulation then these other anchors move to address any changes in wind and with that movement allow a slow drag.

I'm only trying to clarify in my own mind what it is your are observing/suggesting.

Jonathan

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by JonJo

I might misunderstand but what your observation suggests is that as the shank and of both the Danforth and Fortress move, with relation to the rest of the anchor (so they move left to right at the crown) then as the wind veers the articulation of the shank allows the fluke itself to stay in the same place. You further suggest that as other anchors (excluding the CQR) does not have this articulation then these other anchors move to address any changes in wind and with that movement allow a slow drag.

I'm only trying to clarify in my own mind what it is your are observing/suggesting.

Jonathan

yes. The shank of the anchor acts like a lever magnifying the side to side force on the flukes if it is one piece with the flukes. So if the shank is attached to the flukes in a manner that allows for some movement there is less force on the flukes and they can stay set. The bottom line is there is no perfect anchor each excels in only one area so to be safe one must carry at least two different types of anchors. Just my interpretation based on over fifty years of anchoring everything from a small skiff to a 40 foot trawler.
Please note that I also observed that pretty much all types will hold if set properly and with a rode of seven or more times the water depth. I've never used all chain just a few feet of chain and I'm sure an all chain rode would act very different. In Chapmans they mention the use of a bouy in the rode to reduce the strain on the anchor which makes sense to me. Seems like I tried this years ago and it worked great until it got real nasty then the buoy went under water from the load, but the anchor held.
What ever you do always make sure you have an extra rode and anchor ready to deploy instantly just in case. Its scary to wake up in the middle of the night to find out your drifting towards a rocky shore. This has happened to me and the extra anchor didn't hold but it slowed the wind blown drift enough to allow me time to get the engines going. That reminds me. Another thing I insist upon having is a remote controlled windlass which allows me to run the boat and pull in the rode at the same time. Can't always depend upon crew especially in gale conditions.
I even have a profish windlass on my 18 foot Wooldridge Alaskan Alaskan | Wooldridge Boats in fact picture number 4 is my boat if your interested.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Talon shallow water anchor.
Good for upto 12 foot depth.
We anchor in 6 to 12 feet all the time.

Just imagine if they could scale this anchor up to hold a larger vessel. Its an interesting design.

My next boat (7500 kg) will have one, hydraulically deployed, weight of extending element 800 kg, weight of upper element 1200kg. Max depth 2.7m.

It's essentially a telescopic keel. And being strong enough to act as a keel makes it overkill for holding station over a soft bottom.

I have actually seen an even bigger boat exploit this; it was a 52' expedition yacht, alu like my projected boat, with twin (side by side) dagger keels. Useful fallback for a single hander in tight situations, to be able to immobilise the boat, say when rowing out stern lines.

I will be valving it so the bottom element can slide passively up and down if desired, the weight keeping it in contact with the bottom. That could also be useful for buying time in an unplanned grounding situation (to prevent or delay being washed into shallower water)

Naturally the keel case has to be truly massive.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by jnrdafoe

My bigger is better anchor choice was mostly made by other people.
Our 5 ton 31' sailboat came with a 35# original Bruce anchor. It was the next size heavier than recommended. The previous owner never used it but we did through out Northern Lake Michigan for a decade of summer anchoring. The Bruce seamed to set ok but in anything but an ideal holding clay type bottom it would move. Setting quick only to continue to move doesn't mean holding to me. It looked to me like it didn't have resistance designed into it. I'm not an engineer, it just my opinion.

Our next boat came with a new generation hoop style anchor. Brand new, with the label still on it. It was the size recommend for an 11 ton 41' sailboat. The design seems good with a large surface area to catch material and create holding. I did consult with the manufacturer about our plans to coastal cruise and anchor as often as possible. He kindly recommended the next heavier anchor they produce, a 60# and all chain rode.

I was grateful for the advice but I wanted an anchor that was not only heavy but simple, without a hoop, that was designed to force itself in and create resistance at the same time. In my opinion the Sarca Excel answers those requirements. With its tapered edges it starts biting in. Its compound tip angles and wedge shaped weight it forces the tip in. The body continues to force the tip down and start creating resistance at the same time. Best of all it is mounted on a heavy, reinforced stock that doesn't look like it will give any time soon!
We've anchored in the same places that we did with our Bruce and slept much better. We've had 30kt winds in St James Bay and passing front wind shifts to test the holding power. We weren't the only ones that stayed but more dragged than didn't that night. We had to learn a technique, from designer Rex Francis, to start the Excel into heavy grass and it works. We have been secure any place we've anchored in the last 6 months and 3000 miles from the great lakes to Florida because of the Sarca Excel.
I know everyone has the best anchor and we all have an opinion. In my opinion, I have the best anchor for the most conditions I've encounter in our size boat.

Care to share the "heavy grass" penetration technique?


PS:

The Excel should outperform the Bruce it replaces; it's nearly twice the weight !

Don't get me wrong, I consider it an impressive design, but it's surprisingly hard to find like-to-like comparisons of actual use, eg resulting from genuine Bruce anchors being replaced by newGen anchors the same size, on the same boat.

Which makes an objective comparison difficult, for those of us who think of anchor tests as being useful only for finding out how well anchors perform in tests.

[eyschulman]

I proclaim anchoring and everything associated with it a new belief based entity and a religion. All those who believe (whatever they believe) should petition the government for a tax free status for anchors and related equipment.