Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[congo]

Jedi,
If thats what you think then it is your porogative, fine with me, I should point out we supply police, fisheries, coast guard and commercial boats all have to be suplied with certified anchors, if their was any truth in Noelexs effort then all hell would have broken loose long before this-22 years now.

We are up to seven and a half thousand anchors a year and growing, New Zealand is flying for us with many of their boat builders fitting our anchors as standard, Ring chains and ropes N.Z. check it out, not to bad for shonky anchors.

I will n ot be drawn on this subject any further.

Regards Rex

[Steve Pope]

This has turned into a pissing contest that has no point but perhaps Noelex's ego! driven by who knows what, "Noelex" is a "Moderator"! oxymoron if I ever heard one. Rex please cut of the oxygen supply. Most posters / lurkers can see this for what it is!
Given the right circumstances every anchor will have a fail point either through misuse, size issues, ignorance etc.

[Neeltje]

Wow, you guys are a piece of work! Close to 2000 responses to a simple question that even someone with a degree in rocket science like myself wouldn't even argue.

Of course "bigger is better", and if your girl friend tells you differently, she's lying through her teeth.

[GMac]

Wowww... As someone whose sold a gazillion anchors (+/-) including a motherload of Sarcas I can say with hand on heart Sarca would be one of the least bent ones we see. The 2 most likely to bend are the 2 with the largest marketing budgets.

Personally I think if someone wants to attack a product based on it being bent when it's pretty obvious from the photo it's had an attack of the hacksaw, it's an argument they will never let go of. So I second Steves comment to Rex to just give it away and go fishing instead. I have a photo showing Nolexs anchor bent but I bet he's still using one. No I don't know what he has but I do have lots of photos and the only anchor that pops to mind not in that library is the Mantus but then we don't get those down here.

If Nolex would like to flick back at my previous posts he'll see I haven't always been that nice to Sarca, but fair's fair so in the bending stakes Sarcas certainly don't pop up on our radar, unlike some others.

Besides some of the photos the word 'bent' is pushing the word a little I'd say.

As a FYI, the last Sarca I saw bent was a year or so ago when a punter brought it in to see if it was OK to panel beat straight again as he caught it in a rock. But as he had loved it for 8 years he didn't want to just chuck it. I asked Anchor Right if it was OK and Rex just said 'give him a new one'. Rex knew the anchor was 8 years old and bent by silliness yet still gave the bloke a new one. Try and get some of the other manufacturers to do that, they won't.

And No, bigger isn't always better.

Ask the Davidson 46 that fitted an Excel two sizes up from recommended. Set it well, had 30kts over night, boat nor winch had the power to get it back. The replacement was the recommended size and the boat reported back late last week "I can't get the new one to let go even when trying, maybe I should have listened?"

Had exactly the same with a boat that fitted a Boss, went in well and hung thru the rough weather damn well but could they get it back? Nope.

Back in the day bigger was good but today with some of these new designs they have brought a new issue to anchoring we've never had before, that being getting the buggers back if they set deep.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by congo

I will not be drawn on this subject any further.
Regards Rex

If only we all knew that to be true!!!!

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by GMac

Wowww... As someone whose sold a gazillion anchors (+/-) including a motherload of Sarcas I can say with hand on heart Sarca would be one of the least bent ones we see. The 2 most likely to bend are the 2 with the largest marketing budgets.

It is nice to get some feedback from an anchor retailer. It is good to know that you are not seeing as many issues.

Originally Posted by GMac

Personally I think if someone wants to attack a product based on it being bent when it's pretty obvious from the photo it's had an attack of the hacksaw, it's an argument they will never let go of.

Wow, anchor threads do promote some conspiracy theories.

I cannot imagine why anyone would attack an anchor with a hacksaw and then mount it on their bow.

My cellphone photo is unfortunately very poor, but when visually inspecting the broken surface was quite lumpy and irregular, not the sort of appearance I would associate with a hacksaw cut.

Here are some more photos, perhaps someone with metallurgy knowledge could comment.

Edit: I have removed the photos

[exMaggieDrum]

Anchors and anchoring are touchy subjects - like religion and politics. Hard to prove anything because it "depends". One point though - having two anchors instead of just one was important to us. We almost had to leave an anchor once and knew several others who had to. Some of them were able to relocate them and retrieve them - some not. We had to drop a stern anchor once but put a buoy ball on it to retrieve the next morning. We also had a big Fortress down below but never used it. Not having an anchor is a scary thing.

[bfloyd4445]

looks like someone took a grinder to it. what kind of bottom were you anchored on?

[GMac]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

It is nice to get some feedback from an anchor retailer. It is good to know that you are not seeing as many issues.


Wow, anchor threads do promote some conspiracy theories.

I cannot imagine why anyone would attack an anchor with a hacksaw and then mount it on their bow.

Generally to the trade rather than retailer. We have way to much product knowledge to be a retailer

Conspiracy = Nope. You wanna see why people do to their anchors in bursts of misguided brilliance. The lastest craze is to weld on rollbars which is funny as big chunky rollbars are only anchor performance negative and only on the Rocna and Supreme as they were both too scared to try and breach Alain, Mr Spades, tip weight patent. It's funny to hear when you ask "Why did you do that?", "because he's got one" as they point to a Supreme or Rocna.

People modify anchors a lot, why? I reckon a lot has to do with drinking to much or alien space rays as most of the time the modifications are stupid and make little sense.

We just changed computer networks so when that's sorted I'll see if I can start a thread entitled something like 'Why did ya do that?' and post some of the anchors we've seen. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by GMac

Generally to the trade rather than retailer. We have way to much product knowledge to be a retailer

Conspiracy = Nope. You wanna see why people do to their anchors in bursts of misguided brilliance. The lastest craze is to weld on rollbars which is funny as big chunky rollbars are only anchor performance negative and only on the Rocna and Supreme as they were both too scared to try and breach Alain, Mr Spades, tip weight patent. It's funny to hear when you ask "Why did you do that?", "because he's got one" as they point to a Supreme or Rocna.

People modify anchors a lot, why? I reckon a lot has to do with drinking to much or alien space rays as most of the time the modifications are stupid and make little sense.

We just changed computer networks so when that's sorted I'll see if I can start a thread entitled something like 'Why did ya do that?' and post some of the anchors we've seen. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry.

I can't wait for that thread!

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by GMac

Generally to the trade rather than retailer. We have way to much product knowledge to be a retailer

Conspiracy = Nope. You wanna see why people do to their anchors in bursts of misguided brilliance. The lastest craze is to weld on rollbars which is funny as big chunky rollbars are only anchor performance negative and only on the Rocna and Supreme as they were both too scared to try and breach Alain, Mr Spades, tip weight patent. It's funny to hear when you ask "Why did you do that?", "because he's got one" as they point to a Supreme or Rocna.

People modify anchors a lot, why? I reckon a lot has to do with drinking to much or alien space rays as most of the time the modifications are stupid and make little sense.

We just changed computer networks so when that's sorted I'll see if I can start a thread entitled something like 'Why did ya do that?' and post some of the anchors we've seen. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry.

I cant wait to see the pictures
However, to continue your line of thought: We must keep in mind that mankind since time in memorial has always seeked ways to improve upon the current status quo. This means trying to improve upon the traverse by inventing wheels the horse by inventing the Calistoga wagon etc. At some point one reaches a state of perfection that physics will not allow improvements upon like with the wheel. We can make new "improved" tires to dress up the wheel but the basic wheel is the same no matter were it's found, in the axles of your car, transmission or differential etc. The anchor as we know it I suspect is close to the state of development of the wheel. There will allways be those that will tweak it claiming improvement but the fact is it will still be an anchor just like a wheel will always be a wheel.

[ReMetau]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

I cant wait to see the pictures
However, to continue your line of thought: We must keep in mind that mankind since time in memorial has always seeked ways to improve upon the current status quo. This means trying to improve upon the traverse by inventing wheels the horse by inventing the Calistoga wagon etc. At some point one reaches a state of perfection that physics will not allow improvements upon like with the wheel. We can make new "improved" tires to dress up the wheel but the basic wheel is the same no matter were it's found, in the axles of your car, transmission or differential etc. The anchor as we know it I suspect is close to the state of development of the wheel. There will allways be those that will tweak it claiming improvement but the fact is it will still be an anchor just like a wheel will always be a wheel.

Yeah, but good luck driving your Porsche at 100 mph with a metal wrapped wood wheel.

[noelex 77]

Great idea for a thread.

I have got a few photos I could contribute.
Just for a teaser this anchor intrigued me. The blade can rotate 360 degrees as well as completely flip over the horizontal axis.

(Note this could be pure genius. I have not seen it in action and the design is so different to anything else it is difficult to speculate how well it works in practice)

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by ReMetau

Yeah, but good luck driving your Porsche at 100 mph with a metal wrapped wood wheel.

chuckle.. I have driven lots of boats with metal wheels so why not a porsch?

[Neeltje]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

My next boat (7500 kg) will have one, hydraulically deployed, weight of extending element 800 kg, weight of upper element 1200kg. Max depth 2.7m.

It's essentially a telescopic keel. And being strong enough to act as a keel makes it overkill for holding station over a soft bottom.

I have actually seen an even bigger boat exploit this; it was a 52' expedition yacht, alu like my projected boat, with twin (side by side) dagger keels. Useful fallback for a single hander in tight situations, to be able to immobilise the boat, say when rowing out stern lines.

I will be valving it so the bottom element can slide passively up and down if desired, the weight keeping it in contact with the bottom. That could also be useful for buying time in an unplanned grounding situation (to prevent or delay being washed into shallower water)

Naturally the keel case has to be truly massive.

Aside from the shorter, telescopic mast, this looks an awful lot like the tower stakes most pier-building barges and dredges have been using forever, so it should work, as long as you're in relatively calm waters.