Spring line attachment on 25' sailboat

[Welti]

My 25' Cal-2 boat has only bow and stern cleats, nothing midship. I wondered about adding a cleat there. The person I bought the boat from is currently running spring lines from dock cleat to two midship stantions (at the bottom, near the deck). Stantions aren't really designed for that, though it is a smallish boat and fairly protected slip. Is that Kosher?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Welti

My 25' Cal-2 boat has only bow and stern cleats, nothing midship. I wondered about adding a cleat there. The person I bought the boat from is currently running spring lines from dock cleat to two midship stantions (at the bottom, near the deck). Stantions aren't really designed for that, though it is a smallish boat and fairly protected slip. Is that Kosher?

My bow spring goes to a stanchion base. My stern spring goes to a winch.

The forward one has a carabiner and the stern one has a loop which drops over the winch.

We usually leave our lines on the dock.

[deblen]

It would be best to have a proper substantial cleat with thru deck bolts & backing plate.
If you locate these cleats-port & stbd- just ahead of the cockpit bulkhead,they can be used for fore & aft springs and for singlehanded docking & departing as in this video.
The boat in the video is rather "rough",but note how easily he ties up without leaving the cockpit.
He probably should have pre-positioned 2 fenders-either side of cleat,but,once he tied that one mid line to the dock-the boat couldn't go anywhere.
Then he could crawl/step safely on dock & put other lines out.
Cheers/Len

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWyXsIOM44I

[Welti]

Originally Posted by wingssail

My bow spring goes to a stanchion base. My stern spring goes to a winch.

The forward one has a carabiner and the stern one has a loop which drops over the winch.

We usually leave our lines on the dock.

Interesting, that was another question for me. Dock lines left at dock or on boat. I my 101/103 classes we had the lines on the boat, looped on the pulpit.

Which is better?

[Sailer_Med]

Originally Posted by Welti

Interesting, that was another question for me. Dock lines left at dock or on boat. I my 101/103 classes we had the lines on the boat, looped on the pulpit.

Which is better?

I leave the dock lines on the dock at my home slip. I have on board another set for mooring away from home.l

[Pete7]

If you go from dock to cleat, is the run fairly straight and lot likely to chaff anywhere, or if it does could you add protection?

At 25 feet, full length springs will give a bit in a blow which is good. Very short springs won't, so you end up fitting rubber dog bones or metal springs.

However, the middle cleat is really useful coming alongside, particularly single handed. Just get that one rope on a cleat the boats not going anywhere. Might swing about a bit, but that is okay.

Pete

[Anders]

I only use the midship cleat to hang fenders. Springs goes to bow or stern cleats.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Welti

Interesting, that was another question for me. Dock lines left at dock or on boat. I my 101/103 classes we had the lines on the boat, looped on the pulpit.

Which is better?

If you aren't leaving the area leave the dock lines on the dock and pilings.

I leave my fenders on the dock also.....permanently that is until I cruise long distance then they will go on the boat.

I just have foredeck cleat, stern and winch cleat also.

Two lines going to winch cleat. Two lines going to foredeck cleat.

You don't need many with a small boat.

Winch cleat and line is only used during heavy Northerly winds which is when the photos with less color were taken. Tide is up also.

[leecea]

There are cleats designed to slide on the typical t-track used for jib cars. Maybe they're worth a look.

[valhalla360]

Not crazy about it but at the stantion bases, it's probably OK.

Or course, you don't need to spring from the center of the boat. The spring lines can be attached at the stern or bow cleats.

As far as lines on the boat or at the dock, for permanent slips, it's nice to tie them on the docks with loops at predetermined lengths so you can quickly secure the boat and don't need to muck about adjusting them. Then use a separate set for when visiting other marinas.

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by leecea

There are cleats designed to slide on the typical t-track used for jib cars. Maybe they're worth a look.

+1 for leecea's suggestion. This worked well for me on my Catalina 25, except I used a sliding padeye instead of a cleat. I think a cleat would be more user friendly, but wonder if the jib sheet would have a tendency to snag a horn on the cleat. I used this for my stopping aft spring when entering the slip. A nice benefit of the sliding fitting is that I could adjust the spring without untying it by sliding the padeye - one position for entering the slip and another for the final tie up.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by leecea

There are cleats designed to slide on the typical t-track used for jib cars. Maybe they're worth a look.

My boat has those and on heavy wind days if you tie your dock lines too them they will bent the railing during each heavy wind gust.

Because of this, I don't use those anymore to tie dock to.

Other boats may have a stronger setup. The rails for those cleats are mounted on top of a Teak Toe rail on a Bristol 27.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by JoeRobertJr

…but wonder if the jib sheet would have a tendency to snag a horn on the cleat…

This did happen once in a while on on our old Cat 36 that had these sliding cleats on the toe rail. Not often enough that we did anything about it, but definitely a possibility.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Anders

I only use the midship cleat to hang fenders. Springs goes to bow or stern cleats.

We have two very nice 50' dock lines (plus spares).

With these two lines it is difficult to use them for the four purposes: bow line, stern line, and forward and aft spring lines if you wish to have the spring lines going to the bow and stern instead of midship attachment points. However you can easily use these two lines for all four dock lines if you use midship attachment points, and you can leave them on the dock with exact lengths for secure docking.

Here's how we do it:

Bow line loop dropped over bow cleat on the boat then led to the dock cleat next to the bow. Cleated on that dock cleat, then the other end of the line is dropped over the boat's midship cleat. Finally snug it up at the dock and cleat it on the same cleat as the bow line. So one line is now set for bow line and forward spring line and both are cleated on one dock cleat.

Now do similar for the stern line and aft spring line. So one line is now set for stern line and aft spring line and both are cleated on one dock cleat new the stern.

To depart the slip just toss the loops of your dock lines onto the dock.

When returning, one person has to get down to the dock and hand up the lines one by one. We ask for the aft spring line first which stops the boat at the right place. If someone shows up on the dock to help, direct them to hand you the "long one" which is the aft spring line.

If we are going to be gone for a while and visiting other ports, we take the dock lines. While underway the dock lines are coiled and stowed below.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by wingssail

We have two very nice 50' dock lines (plus spares).

With these two lines it is difficult to use them for the four purposes: bow line, stern line, and forward and aft spring lines if you wish to have the spring lines going to the bow and stern instead of midship attachment points. However you can easily use these two lines for all four dock lines if you use midship attachment points, and you can leave them on the dock with exact lengths for secure docking.

Here's how we do it:

Bow line loop dropped over bow cleat on the boat then led to the dock cleat next to the bow. Cleated on that dock cleat, then the other end of the line is dropped over the boat's midship cleat. Finally snug it up at the dock and cleat it on the same cleat as the bow line. So one line is now set for bow line and forward spring line and both are cleated on one dock cleat.

Now do similar for the stern line and aft spring line. So one line is now set for stern line and aft spring line and both are cleated on one dock cleat new the stern.

To depart the slip just toss the loops of your dock lines onto the dock.

When returning, one person has to get down to the dock and hand up the lines one by one. We ask for the aft spring line first which stops the boat at the right place. If someone shows up on the dock to help, direct them to hand you the "long one" which is the aft spring line.

If we are going to be gone for a while and visiting other ports, we take the dock lines. While underway the dock lines are coiled and stowed below.

I can't se any advantage with having one line serve two purposes? I have never had a home dock and don't go side to that often but when I do I usually tie off a bow spring and then motor forward while I sort out the rest of the lines. I have lots of lines in various lengths.