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thomm225 · 15-11-2022, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRobertJr

but wonder if the jib sheet would have a tendency to snag a horn on the cleat.

This happens to me once or twice/year usually when the jib sheet is very loose or I have recently changed sails/jibs or removed/reinstalled one.

You can always reposition the cleats to the far ends of the rail

**Don C L** · 15-11-2022, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welti

My 25' Cal-2 boat has only bow and stern cleats, nothing midship. I wondered about adding a cleat there. The person I bought the boat from is currently running spring lines from dock cleat to two midship stantions (at the bottom, near the deck). Stantions aren't really designed for that, though it is a smallish boat and fairly protected slip. Is that Kosher?

For now I'd say you are safe given what you have described, she's a fairly small and light boat. I'd suggest also the cleat on the jib track on the rail, that's the quickest and easiest change as long as the track is well supported underneath with backing blocks that span the hull/deck joint, not just some small washers on the bolts. But on my boat I run mine all the way back to the stern and/or bow and it rides outside of the fenders to keep it off the boat. I have midship cleats too and chocks on the rail to allow the correct angle to avoid chafe, but I have to be sure that the fire hose is there on the line and will stay put because there will be chafe. Going all the way back to the stern gives a lot of spring to the spring line.

**JPA Cate** · 15-11-2022, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don C L

For now I'd say you are safe given what you have described, she's a fairly small and light boat. I'd suggest also the cleat on the jib track on the rail, that's the quickest and easiest change as long as the track is well supported underneath with backing blocks that span the hull/deck joint, not just some small washers on the bolts. But on my boat I run mine all the way back to the stern and/or bow and it rides outside of the fenders to keep it off the boat. I have midship cleats too and chocks on the rail to allow the correct angle to avoid chafe, but I have to be sure that the fire hose is there on the line and will stay put because there will be chafe. Going all the way back to the stern gives a lot of spring to the spring line.

I mostly agree with Don's post on all points, but I wanted to add something. It is that if you ever take the boat to somewhere where there are big tides, then springing from stern to dock, well forward, and from bow to stern, well aft, allows you to keep your fenders or fenders plus fender board placed where they will take the chafe from the odd rough bits on the dock. It's a time when you want to secure the boat from fore and aft movement.

On our 36 footer, we did install a midships cleat, and it can be useful for docking, particularly in tidal streams. If you have access to the area, then installing one with a good sized backing plate can turn out to have many advantages. And it is a project, more than just using the stanchion base. Don't be surprised, if it gets jerks, that the caulking will break down and you'll get a leak that will tell you to re-bed the stanchion. I personally really detest wet sea berths.

Ann

Happ · 28-11-2022, 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welti

Interesting, that was another question for me. Dock lines left at dock or on boat. I my 101/103 classes we had the lines on the boat, looped on the pulpit.

Which is better?

The advantage of having the bitter end on the boat is it is easier to make adjustments and you don’t have all your lines all over the dock which is a tripping hazard. Another reason is some animals (Sea Otters) like bunched up lines to do number 2 on.

gonesail · 28-11-2022, 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welti

Dock lines left at dock or on boat. I my 101/103 classes we had the lines on the boat, looped on the pulpit.

Which is better?

standing loop at the deck cleat. lines tied on the dock cleat. spring lines always at the midship cleat. leave the lines at the dock.

sinnerman · 28-11-2022, 09:51

I plan on doing the same on my Cat 30.

I was thinking about installing folding cleats, as they would be less of a trip hazard / genoa sheet grabber when not at the doc.

Cheers

Cynara · 28-11-2022, 10:13

We yook dock lines with us. Easy to step off the boat with them and tie off

Americanrancher · 28-11-2022, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by leecea

There are cleats designed to slide on the typical t-track used for jib cars. Maybe they're worth a look.

I use these as well and am happy with them.

GrowleyMonster · 29-11-2022, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by leecea

There are cleats designed to slide on the typical t-track used for jib cars. Maybe they're worth a look.

Those, or similar, are excellent on a smaller boat! They are extremely useful, and you can slide them out of the way when not needed, so your jib sheet never accidentally takes a turn around it. If you have tracks for movable headsail sheet fairlead blocks already, then adding track cleats only costs chimp change. I agree with others who agree with me, that a long lead is better, generally, which means running a spring line fwd from the stern quarter cleat and another aft from the bow cleat, but having a cleat just forward of the cockpit is GREAT for single handed docking/undocking. Get alongside, get a line across and make it fast to that more or less midship cleat, and relax a minute while you congratulate yourself and think about your permanent or semi-permanent or overnight tie-up. Track cleats are also excellent for hanging a fender.

By the time you lay up a level deck pad for a permanent cleat, make a strongback or doubler for under the deck, drill your holes through the whole setup, then bolt the cleat in place, your labor and materials are worth more than a new track cleat, let alone a used one.

GrowleyMonster · 29-11-2022, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welti

Interesting, that was another question for me. Dock lines left at dock or on boat. I my 101/103 classes we had the lines on the boat, looped on the pulpit.

Which is better?

I single up an hour or so before getting underway. Disconnect services, slack all lines, and let the boat fall off to leeward first, where I cast off those lines and leave them either coiled and tied with 9 thread to the pilings so I can grab the lines and break the ties on the way back into the slip, or just tossed onto the finger pier if that is the leeward side. My stern lines are crossed and led to cleats on the main pier, eyes on boat cleats. I pull myself to windward and re-run the bow breast as a bight, so it can be let go and brought in with no drama. The springs are coiled and tied to the same piling for retrieval when backing in to the slip. The boat is then secured only with the windward bow breast, and the two crossed stern lines. If I am by myself, I go dead slow ahead against those stern lines, walk forward, cast off and heave in that windward breast. It stays on the boat. When I return I use a boathook to drop the other end, which has an eye, on that piling, and lead the other end back to the cockpit so I can control the boat while backing. If there is no wind, since I have a right hand wheel, I will regard the starboard side as windward, naturally, so I can use the side force while backing to turn into the slip. There is no finger pier on that side, just pilings.

So now all lines are cast off and either left on the dock, or secured in big coils on the pilings, and one forward breast onboard. Two lines left, my stern lines. Still in gear, dead slow or slow ahead, stern lines stretched a little. Ease throttle and drop her out of gear, and the boat bounces back gently toward the main pier. I lift the eyes off the stern cleats while the boat is centered and ready to leave the slip, and there is no traffic to be concerned with. I usually leave them dangle in the water. Good samaritans will otherwise make them up nice and neat for me so I can't grab them with my boathook. They are not long enough to get in the wheel on this boat, so no worries about that. If they were, I would put a small float on them. Slow ahead to leave the slip. Byebye!

Coming back, I try to at least grab the windward bow line on the way in or if it is on deck, use the boathook to drop the eye on the piling, and run the bitter end back aft so I can control the bow from the cockpit. I back until I have at least the windward leading stern line, but preferably both, drop those eyes on their cleats, then go forward and pull the bow to windward so I can retrieve the other windward lines, then slack all and pick up the leeward ones, bring everything up and tight, and Finished With Engines. I have too much freeboard to conveniently use the finger pier to get ashore without a ladder, but I am high enough to step across to the main pier while holding the backstay. Grab shore power cable (I leave that, too, if I won't be gone more than a day or two, sometimes though I coil it into the dock box) and water if I need it.

Leaving those stern lines already adjusted on the pier is a big help in docking this large-ish boat by myself. Leaving all the rest except that windward bow line helps keep my deck clear and actually makes docking easier for me. Only that bow line comes aboard when I leave.

I do have other lines for docking elsewhere, but I only break them out of storage when they are needed, and only those lines that will be needed. a couple of old retired jib sheets will hold the old girl nicely alongside a bar or restaurant somewhere, for a pit stop or to get fuel from the fuel dock mafia. If sheltering in weather, I get out the big guns, and double up. I just hate breaking out the stored aboard lines when they are already made up so neatly!

Which is better, depends on your boat, your slip, your marina, how long you will be gone, and other factors, but I believe the general preference is to leave all lines or most lines ashore, for day sails or weekend type jaunts. However, you need to have a couple two or three or more lines that you keep on the boat, for tying up here and there. If you will be gone for several days or longer I suggest not leaving your lines on the pier, but you might want to leave most of them in your dock box if you have one. Otherwise bring them all aboard.

Two nice long boathooks can be well worth the cost. Even if you are solo, that second boathook can be a great convenience. Funny how that first one ends up in the water all the time. When docking I like to have one up forward so I don't have to carry my only one up there, and of course one in the cockpit.