Are any boaters following the law?

[roverhi]

The truth is that sea water quickly renders human pathogens inert so health issues are not that big a problem. That's not the case in fresh/brackish water. Granted swimming in Baby Ruth's isn't appetizing but a macerator makes it into bite size morsels for the small fish that thrive on it.

The big issue is concentration. In a crowded anchorage with poor tidal flushing conditions things could get unwholesome. Then there is the holding tank dumping. Instead of discharging a single use which would be quickly assimilated, a weeks/months accumulation is inserted into the environment all at one poop.

[Sojourner]

Overboard here in the Med. When they upgrade my marina's toilet facilities to match the pricetag, I'll consider using them, but until then, nobody does. And at anchor, always straight out. Plus food refuse, that's over the side too. I'm not a cruise ship and it's all organic, so I don't worry about it, nor does anyone else.

[toddster8]

Considering how many of my dock neighbors and their kids spend the summer swimming around the marina, I assume that they are tidy with their holding tanks. Although swimming is against the rules due to electric shock hazard in freshwater, so they're all rule-breakers anyway.

However, the pump-out stations close from October to April, due to freezing weather. So it's a virtual certainty that some people are pumping and dumping. Kind of like back in the 90's when there was no legal way to change or dispose of light bulbs and batteries. At government labs, we had to smuggle them in and out from home in our briefcases and backpacks. Illegal but no feasible alternative.

[Ken Z]

Last summer I was holed up in shalimar, near ft. walton beach, now called two georges marina and the amount of “ floaters”were outrageous. There was a working bathhouse within 250’ of most of the liveaboards. I could count on one hand, and still have change, the number of people that walked to the land toilets. It was gross. The marina is in a somewhat cove location.... ugly... the baitfish were happy.PEOPLE....🤯🍸🍸🍸🍸

[ShellBack89]

Originally Posted by roverhi

The truth is that sea water quickly renders human pathogens inert so health issues are not that big a problem.

That is incorrect . Having grown up in Orange County and San Diego where every time it rained the raw sewage from Mexico would flow north and resulted in beach closures due to health reasons. There have been studies related to this issue.



Here is one:


The Health Effects of Swimming in Ocean Water Contaminated by Storm Drain Runoff

"Waters adjacent to the County of Los Angeles (CA) receive untreated runoff from a series of storm drains year round. Many other coastal areas face a similar situation. We report here results of a cohort study conducted to investigate this issue. Measures of exposure included distance from the storm drain, selected bacterial indicators (total and fecal coliforms, enterococci, and Escherichia coli), and a direct measure of enteric viruses. We found higher risks of a broad range of symptoms, including both upper respiratory and gastrointestinal, for subjects swimming (a) closer to storm drains, (b) in water with high levels of single bacterial indicators and a low ratio of total to fecal coliforms, and (c) in water where enteric viruses were detected. The strength and consistency of the associations we observed across various measures of exposure imply that there may be an increased risk of adverse health outcomes associated with swimming in ocean water that is contaminated with untreated urban runoff."

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by ShellBack89

That is incorrect . Having grown up in Orange County and San Diego where every time it rained the raw sewage from Mexico would flow north and resulted in beach closures due to health reasons. There have been studies related to this issue.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

...the raw sewage from Mexico...


Really? Where did it say that?


San Francisco has the same problem, and it ain't Mexico!!!

[toddster8]

^Well, I was going to jump on that, but I figured people wouldn't care about the subtle details.

E. coli and total fecal coliform bacteria don't make a good indicator organisms in sea water, but pathogens, including viruses, are still transmitted. Other kinds of indicators are used instead.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Well, on the Canadian side, there are no provincial run pump out facilities that I am aware of. Most (not all) commercial marinas will have the service, but at a price. Before I stopped caring (compost head user ), I recall normal prices ranging from $10 to $30.

And it really depends on which Lake you’re on. There are tons of marinas and pump out facilities on the lower lakes. On the upper lakes the marinas, and therefore the pump out facilities, can be few and far between. On Lake Superior you may have to travel over 100 nm to reach a facility.

Pump out in Harbortown Muskegon Lake is five bucks. I’d tip that much to the kid doing it.

We have sailed from western Lake Superior to Nova Scotia on the Saint Lawrence. Superior, Michigan and Aharon are nearly spotless. By lake St Claire it is brown and turbid. Lake Erie is a sewer at the west end with patches of invasive weed floating. Fertility boosted by Detroit is immense. Fly over Lake Erie and view the plumes from all of the Ohio big rivers. Pass through the locks into Ontario and it’s hard to believe it’s the same water we saw in Superior. Locals tell us it’s beautiful. To me it’s a cesspool. For sure, it’s not boaters, but that is where the enforcement and fines are. One drop of oil causing a visible sheen - $5000.00. I have no idea what a head violation costs. The Fox River, Green Bay is so thick with algae I don’t drown how it gets through the engine.

[ShellBack89]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

...the raw sewage from Mexico...


Really? Where did it say that?


San Francisco has the same problem, and it ain't Mexico!!!

Clearly you missed the point..... So I'll spell it out for you. Raw sewage in fact causes health issues. That was just one study to prove my point.

Now, having lived in San Diego I know first hand beach closures were more frequent due to raw sewage flowing north from Mexico. It seems like you needed proof so I've attached several articles for your reading pleasure

Tijuana sewage spills have been an environmental problem for decades so what's the solution?

Tijuana sewage spills have been an environmental problem for decades so what's the solution? - The San Diego Union-Tribune


Sewage Pollution within the Tijuana River Watershed

Sewage Problems

Over the past 30 years, Tijuana, Mexico has experienced tremendous population and industrial growth, along with rapid urbanization which has put a strain on the aging Mexican sewage infrastructure in the region to meet the expanding needs. The emerging sewage infrastructure inadequacies have created recurring sewage pollution problems on both sides of the California - Mexico border. At times, sewage generated on the Mexico side of the watershed travels north into California through the Tijuana River or other cross-border canyon tributaries, in the Tijuana River Valley. The sewage flows degrade water quality in the Tijuana River Estuary and adjacent beach coastal waters and also pose a significant public health risk to residents and visitors along both sides of the border.
Efforts to Address Sewage Problems

The border sewage flows present a difficult challenge for California due to the lack of U.S. jurisdiction in Mexico, making the development of cooperative binational approaches that are coordinated within and across governments essential. Governmental organizations on both sides of the border are working collaboratively on multiple fronts to prevent the sewage spills from crossing the border and to address the underlying sewage infrastructure problems.


Border Patrol agents say Tijuana River pollution is making them sick, and officials want it fixed

With health complaints continuing from Border Patrol agents who work the polluted areas of the Tijuana River Valley, the federal Customs and Border Protection agency is quietly trying to solve some of the problems of toxic sewage flows from Mexico — on its own.


Mexico blamed for Tijuana river pollution

Beaches closed on both sides of border after heavy rains

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/mexico-blamed-again-for-tijuana-river-pollution/


Tijuana River sewage shutters beaches from Mexico border to Coronado

Beaches as far north as the Hotel del Coronado have been closed following weekend showers that flushed sewage-polluted water through the Tijuana River and into the Pacific Ocean.

The closures, which started Sunday, also include the shorelines of Border Field State Park, Tijuana Slough National Wildlife Refuge, Imperial Beach and Silver Strand.


Surfers Sick from Tijuana Sewage Spill, Surfrider San Diego to Start Water Testing Program

On the weekend of October 28, 2017, residents and beach goers in south county San Diego reported a foul stench and discolored ocean water from Imperial Beach to Coronado. Local residents are coming to know these typical signs of sewage discharging from the Tijuana River all too well.

Since February 2017, there have been at least 15 sewage spills in the Tijuana River and coastline, which flow directly north to San Diego County beaches. One of those spills took two weeks to contain, and dumped an estimated 143 million gallons of raw sewage into the Tijuana River.

Is that enough use of Mexico, pollution, beach closures, raw sewage and banging head against wall for you?

[ShellBack89]

Originally Posted by toddster8

^Well, I was going to jump on that, but I figured people wouldn't care about the subtle details.

E. coli and total fecal coliform bacteria don't make a good indicator organisms in sea water, but pathogens, including viruses, are still transmitted. Other kinds of indicators are used instead.

Most coliform bacteria will not likely cause illness. However, these bacteria are used as indicators in water tests because their presence indicates that disease-causing organisms (pathogens) could also be in the water. The presence of some types of coliform bacteria in the water signal the presence of

feces or sewage waste. Feces and sewage wastes are usually the source of the disease-causing organisms.

[atmartin]

It's unpopular to admit, but after sailing outside the US, I became casual about pump outs. I don't discharge in marinas or tight moorings areas (bowel discipline and use shore facilities), but urine is always going overboard. If it's Catalina and I'm hamstrung with a dye tablet, I'll void directly overboard. Please don't eco-shame me overmuch.

If it's any consolation, and I'm sure it isn't, I swim, dive and hull clean in the same waters. It just seems like a drop in the bucket to me and I hate carrying offal around. I've gotten UTIs a few times swimming in nasty waters, including Southern California after rains (mentioned by previous poster) and it doesn't seem to be related to the post-coffee anchorage turds I encountered a couple times cruising.

As a "marine service professional", I've been on too many boats with criminally heinous MSD systems where the owner thinks that once their waste is pumped out of the bowl it disappears to the land of wind and ghosts instead of an overfilling tank that dumps into the bilges after a party weekend. Whatever happens to 40 gallons of offal percolating in a tank @ 80 degrees for several days is beyond me, but at that point it's a lot more gross than when it first passed.

[sailorboy1]

Crap

[markpierce]

I've learned it is best not to swim in open waters, not even in private pools or spas. Ugh! There are sharks to pathogens. Don't get off the boat (there may be tigers out there.)

[stnick]

If its cheeper Towns that have water access in Florida Pump excess into the Gulf !
But dont you as a boater do it ! There are laws against you !!
And if you wish to pump out One would expect a county to have inspectors looking at these on a regular bases . You would be wrong !!
They have a Law yes but no backup of said law.

[Island Time O25]

We're spoiled here in our harbor. Stationary pumpouts by the HM's office are "around the corner", about 20 mins motoring each way and are on 24/7 (when not "out of service"). Mobile pumpout boat currently operates 3 days a week Fri-Sun. Used to be spread out Wed-Sat-Sun (or something like that) but recently went to its current schedule. Both are free but we do tip the mobile guys usually $5 and this insures prompt showing up. If they are busy the wait can be 1hr or longer but normally is under 30mins.

The harbor gets good tidal action and together with the free pumpouts and practically no full time liveaboards (but lots of weekend stays) seems to be clean for swimming. In my 12 seasons there I have yet to see a "brownie" or some such float by. But have seen those in Key West though.

But when I'm overnighting (after dark or just swimming) #1 always goes overboard. As one of my buddies likes to say while going off the deck - "do they slap polution fines on whales, seals and other large marine species?"