Are the Seas getting more Violent?

[sailorboy1]

Guess people haven't read Dan Brown's book Inferno?

Nothing to do with global warming other than an answer.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Guess people haven't read Dan Brown's book Inferno?

Nothing to do with global warming other than an answer.

You do know that he writes fiction, right?
Then again, your inability to discern it from non-fiction might explain a lot.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by StuM

Actually, it doesn't make sense. Wind is not determined by temperature, but by temperature/pressure differentials. According to the climate scientists, the poles should warm much more than the tropics - resulting in a smaller temperature/pressure gradient between them and consequently lower winds.

Right, but I was talking about the jet stream, which carries the weather around with it. In this case, from an interview of a meteorologist I heard a while back, a larger temperature differential between poles and equator should result in a stronger (straighter) jet stream and hence less meandering. I presume the recent "polar vortex" may be explained as evidence of a weaker than usual jet stream but I am not sure. I really want to read up on this relationship between the differential and the jet stream though.. it's fascinating. On the Earth's surface it is a different story. The differential between high and low pressure areas, and their proximity, will determine winds at the surface of course. Those factors that deepen the lows and raise the highs drive that.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Guess people haven't read Dan Brown's book Inferno?

Nothing to do with global warming other than an answer.

No, but I read that other book by the same name, written by Buddy Whatsisname. Lots of deniers getting their just comeuppance there .

[kudukuguam]

I travel on business (fly) for the last 40 years in the Eastern Pacific and regularly visit many atoll's that are both small and flat (Tarawa and Majuro particularly) and haven't noticed any changes in shoreline.
Also, in Guam, we haven't had a typhoon of any type for over 10 years (used to have them all the time). Maybe global warming moved them to the Atlantic?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by sneuman

You do know that he writes fiction, right?
Then again, your inability to discern it from non-fiction might explain a lot.

Well I do know he writes fiction. Do YOU know the answer given in the book, because an answer is an answer (and no graphs are needed). Or were you just looking to see how hard you could push the be nice rule?

Since we are now saying that fiction and global warming may or may not have something in common. Any of you read Michael Crichton's State of Fear (he writes fiction to)? That was about global warming.

[kbad]

Isn't this why it is wise to buy a boat

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by kbad

Isn't this why it is wise to buy a boat

Worked for us.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Right, but I was talking about the jet stream, which carries the weather around with it. In this case, from an interview of a meteorologist I heard a while back, a larger temperature differential between poles and equator should result in a stronger (straighter) jet stream and hence less meandering. I presume the recent "polar vortex" may be explained as evidence of a weaker than usual jet stream but I am not sure. I really want to read up on this relationship between the differential and the jet stream though.. it's fascinating. On the Earth's surface it is a different story. The differential between high and low pressure areas, and their proximity, will determine winds at the surface of course. Those factors that deepen the lows and raise the highs drive that.

Rutgers meterologist Jennifer Francis studies this topic and has done some pretty good videos on the subject. The one I saw was a presentation to some TV meterologist. A bit hard for the layman to follow, but I got the gist.

Very practical, not alarmist in presentation, factual.

Tho, at the end they asked her how to reverse the trends we are now seeing and she said it wasn't possible.

There are shorter videos, but this is good, if long. She address some of these questions pretty directly.


Video for rutgers meteorologist jennifer▶ 84:25

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtRvcXUIyZg

Jan 23, 2012 - Uploaded by StormCenterInc
SESSION 9: Jennifer Francis, Rutgers University Topic: The Arctic Paradox. ... Details are ...

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by kudukuguam

I travel on business (fly) for the last 40 years in the Eastern Pacific and regularly visit many atoll's that are both small and flat (Tarawa and Majuro particularly) and haven't noticed any changes in shoreline.
Also, in Guam, we haven't had a typhoon of any type for over 10 years (used to have them all the time). Maybe global warming moved them to the Atlantic?

What about typhoon Chaba 2005, typhoon Dolphin 2008, typhoon Fransico 2013, typhoon Kong Rey 2007 not to mention a few tropical storms that turned into Typhoons before making land fall in Philippines , Japan ,Southern China etc...

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, I agree (don't have to convince me ). What's interesting is that as our understanding of climate gets deeper, so to does our appreciation for the complexity of the global systems. There Earth isn't just a black box, it has internal complexities which respond as a system. The basic physics and chemistry is grade-9 stuff, but how it plays out in the internally-linked, dynamic systems collectively known as climate are really interesting.

The fact is, most of human civilization has existed in an unusually calm period of climate stability. Now that we've pushed the planet's climate out of balance, we're moving into a whole new world of uncertainty for all species -- including our own. At the more mundane level of us sailors, it does seem to me that all our traditional knowledge of routes, timing and passages is now open to far greater uncertainty.

Fascinating ... and kinds scary .

So, it has been unusually calm? Maybe that is the only reason we have survived. But we have pushed it out of balance? To what? Back to it's usually not-so-calm state?

I think I know what you are saying but you can't say one thing and then blame humans for the planet reverting.

You can tell that I don't think humans are anything but a gnat on the earth's ass as far as changing something as complex as climate, right?

Originally Posted by 2kr

All you have to do is say, "GLOBAL WARMING" and you will get lots of replies. Obama says it is the number one problem facing americans. Ridiculous. Its food and obesity. Fat people are dying by the droves from the crap they eat. Once in a while we have a bad storm and a few people die and some property is wrecked. We are all going to die from our ruined food supply, then, if there is global warming, it will sort itself out...once humans are the heck out of the way. Anyone who has been on the ocean for a while is more concerned that the fish are gone, the reefs are dying, than a few waves. We have poisoned the food supply, and we plug too much stuff into the grid. Its easy to solve...we need fewer people. We can start by castrating felons. The average felon in the USA is 30 years old, has 3.7 children by 3.7 women, has never been married. Of course, the state has to borrow money to support them.

I like it. But I want to be on the side that makes the rules OK?

Originally Posted by Don C L

I understand that. And I too enjoy leaving it all at the dock and getting away. But I'd challenge us all not to give up trying to save the planet; don't give up speaking up for what is right. This is the only planet our kids will have, and though the task seems impossible in the face of what you mentioned, that is not necessarily a good reason to give up, is it? Sure, doing more on a personal level is important, but it is not enough. I remember years ago in a class taught by Garret Hardin, a very well-known ecologist we spent 3 months going over basically how trends, research and theories pointed to no hope for the future of humankind. The last day of class a student asked him if he cried at night. His response was surprising, he was optimistic as long as people stayed active and well-informed... and he added, what choice do we have? My take is that we should do our part, and a little more, locally, right where you are, and our children will benefit. It's not for us, it is for them we do these things.

Problem as I see it is most everybody is really doing what they think is a good enough part. That won't work. There are too many feeding.

Who knows. Maybe we can actually grow enough algae to make oil and protein and we can double the population again....

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Therapy

...You can tell that I don't think humans are anything but a gnat on the earth's ass as far as changing something as complex as climate, right?

We've heard this time and time again though out human history. Oh, don't worry about the trees. They'll last forever. Oh, don't worry about the cod, there are too many for us to have any impact. Oh, don't worry about the lakes, the rivers, the oceans. Our little bit of waste can't harm them. You'd think we'd learn

We may be gnats, but put enough gnats on an ass and you create one hell of a sore spot. Of course, the great thing is, it doesn't matter what you think. The world's climate is shifting, and the vast majority of researchers who study this issue says evidence points to human civilization as being partially, or mainly, to blame.

But again, it doesn't matter what the cause. The fact remains that we are entering into a new climate period which will challenge human adaptability. We've always adapted in the past, and I think we'll do so into the future. I believe there will be a massive reduction in our population, and we may go extinct, but that is nothing new. Most species that ever lived on this planet eventually went extinct. No reason to think we're going to fare any better.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

We've heard this time and time again though out human history. Oh, don't worry about the trees. They'll last forever. Oh, don't worry about the cod, there are too many for us to have any impact. Oh, don't worry about the lakes, the rivers, the oceans. Our little bit of waste can't harm them. You'd think we'd learn

We may be gnats, but put enough gnats on an ass and you create one hell of a sore spot. Of course, the great thing is, it doesn't matter what you think. The world's climate is shifting, and the vast majority of researchers who study this issue says evidence points to human civilization as being partially, or mainly, to blame.

But again, it doesn't matter what the cause. The fact remains that we are entering into a new climate period which will challenge human adaptability. We've always adapted in the past, and I think we'll do so into the future. I believe there will be a massive reduction in our population, and we may go extinct, but that is nothing new. Most species that ever lived on this planet eventually went extinct. No reason to think we're going to fare any better.

You forgot that I did not say climate isn't changing.
minusculely (is that a word?), partially or mainly is the argument and I am not going to rehash the stuff about the "vast majority" or the IPCC stuff, since the vast majority persecuted those famous thinkers listed earlier in an argument aimed against the "deniers". Can't have your cake and eat it too.

But at least we agree there is nothing much to be done. I mean, who is going to jump first?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Well my boat is suppose to go in the water on April 7, but there still is at least 2 feet of snow laying about.

Simple. Global Warming.

[hpeer]

Re: gnats ass

Was talking about this with the Wife the other day, Sunday in fact.

I had an epiphany one day sitting in a park looking at a big ol oak. Here is this big mass of tree, and as much more underground in the root system. Where did all that stuff come from? How come ther isn't a big hole around the tree where it drew its matter from?

The answer is, of course, that the "tree" is made up of carbon drawn from the air.

Now think about driving from NY to Chicago then to NOLA then Jackson vile and back to NY. That whole swath of land was once covered with huge trees. It's now gone, well not gone, the carbon has been out back into the air, and then into the ocean. Try to imagine all those huge old trees cut down, think of the mass.

Now think of this, the fossil fuel we burn every year represented thousands of forests worth of carbon. Millions of years of downed trees Cortney of cabin concentrated into coal and oil. Think of how many cords of wood it would take to heat your house. Now know that is only a small fraction of the energy, dead trees, that you burn each year. So on top of your downed forest make layers and layers of more downed trees.

Now burn them, all of them, and then do it again next year.

And next year.

And next year.

Such is a gnats ass.