Slocum 43 vs. Pearson 424 vs. IP 38

[monkeyworks]

Hello, I am a new to the forum and am putting this question out to the sailing universe: I am looking to purchase a blue water capable sailboat to ultimately take through the Panama Canal and to the South Pacific. Ideally the boat would be able to take a knock down in the roaring 40s as well as provide comfort and enjoyment for non-sailor friends. The boat is likely to be single handed often. Here are the primary candidates:

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...owse%20listing
Slocum 43 Pilothouse - comfortable but big windows accessing the cabin

Silverheels' Homeport
Pearson 424 - custom work and systems by a seagoing sailor but custom hardtop bimini will need to be heightened to accommodate this 5'11'' sailor.

https://www.whiteakeryachtsales.com/...orida-5633714/
Island Packet 38 - comfortable layout, but sailing performance a question and 1 original aluminum water 156 gallon water tank that may need replacement/refit to 2 or more water tanks.

Your feedback would be welcome as I hope to put in an offer for one of these within the next week.

[TrentePieds]

An interesting first post :-)!

It is axiomatic that it isn't the boat alone that makes for safe ocean passages. It is the combination of boat and SKIPPER. So before we can really be helpful to you, YOU need to be helpful to US by telling us what your sailing experience and competencies are.

TrentePieds

[a64pilot]

A leaking water tank can be annoying, but a broken chain plate can lead to a dismasting, I’d worry about the IP’s chainplates myself more than the water tank

[monkeyworks]

Happy to comply to the request for more info TrentePieds...5 years of great lakes coastal sailing on 37 to 42 ft Jeaneaus and a 37 Gemini cat. The purchase will be brought up to Lake Michigan where I will spend the next 2 to 3 years getting ready for the ocean passage.

[Cherp]

I think the Slocum windows would be built to stand a bit of weather. She's from the PNW.

[model 10]

It's silly to worry about the Slocum windows, that is one heavy duty boat. Might sail like a pig, but so what. It looks way bigger than an IP 38. To bad A-64 made a big deal about the chain plate thing, now old IP value is crap.
Does the Pearson have Aluminum fuel tanks?

[a64pilot]

The chain plate “Thing” is real but it’s an easy fix, and if fixed right, it’s never a problem again.
I’m sure that whatever I have said hasn’t affected IP values at all.

We like our IP, and they sail better than most think.
Me, I’ll swap a one time chain plate replacement for a boat that can’t get wet decks anyway over one that can.

[model 10]

Yeah, an IP looks like a great cruising boat. However your expose' no doubt affected the value of an IP. How could it not? How many boats have what amounts to an emergency AD that will cost a bunch to fix?
People probably read this stuff.

[laika]

I thought emergency ADs were a given in the old boat market

The IP looks great but setup as a dock queen.

The Slocum doesn't give much system info, and the engine room looks less attended to than the rest of the boat.

The Pearson has an extremely doting owner - maybe good/bad depending upon that owner's style. Listing describes "creative".. "Tor has upgraded or replaced all of Silverheels’ systems and most of her equipment, tricking her out for long-term liveaboard cruising, sometimes in creative ways."

What are you looking for in the boat? All three look like good vessels and full of possibility to me! I'd look at each listing in terms of what isn't said and go from there. You aren't gonna really know until you see them in person (and then live with them for a year )

[monkeyworks]

Thanks for the comments so far. I've visited all of the boats listed first hand. My motivation for sending this is to just see if any knowledgeable sailors can see any red flags among the choices.


My bias is toward the Slocum 43 because of the extra comfort and appeal it will have for myself and guests in Lake Michigan while I prepare for my 1 year sabbatical of off shore cruising. I recognize that this boat is less prepared for short-handed long passages and will require more investment. I think the Pearson is my second choice as all of the work done to her makes sense to me for a short handed blue water capable boat. I'd have to raise the mizzen boom and the custom Bimini up a few inches and perhaps update some existing systems...but I think this boat would require less investment in the long run. The flexibility of sail combinations from this Pearson Ketch really appeals to me. The IP impressed me with her easy access layout and storage space, but I think she would require the most investment of the three (some of the potential upgrades include: water tank, fuel tank, chain plate, conversion from NG to propane cooking, self-steering wind vane)...the presence of the bow-thruster is not really a selling point to me either as I've read it can take away some sailing performance. As the smallest of the three choices, yet likely the more expensive option, this boat comes in third on my list.



Can anyone recommend any resources I can tap to get further educated on the ratings/risks/construction of pilot house windows? I lean to the slocum but I am looking for peace of mind that she will be able to take a knock down without a window's integrity being compromised (with water access directly into the cabin).

[TrentePieds]

I think you are worrying unduly about the pilot house windows. I would not myself make an ocean passage with the windows as they are, but the "upgrade" required to eliminate or at least alleviate enormously the risk of a window being breeched in hard weather is simplicity itself.

Fashion "covers" to fit over the windows while off-shore. Some people use Lexan of adequate thickness, and some people use aluminum or S/S plate. The trick is to absorb and dissipate the force of green water coming aboard BEFORE that force meets the existing windows. Mounting the covers on stand-offs so they can absorb force by flexing or even deforming without touching the existing windows is IMO a must if you are going to do this. About 1 1/2" of clearance twixt cover and window should do the trick.

Simple and cheap to do, so don't let the pilot house be a disqualifying feature if you otherwise like the boat.

My preference would be ally over the other materials because it can deform without breaking, and will continue to protect you even after it has deformed. I would not have that confidence in Lexan, and on PASSAGE you really don't need to be able to see through the windows. Once the dangerous part of the passage is behind you, you simply stow the covers.

TP

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Ecos

How many boats have what amounts to an emergency AD that will cost a bunch to fix?
.

I’d say most 30 yr old boats have something that is going to cost a lot to fix, and any 30 yr old chainplate unless titanium, is suspect to say the least, and there are many, many boats with encapsulated chainplates, although many don’t retain the value as well as an IP and therefore may not be worth fixing.

As far as being set up as a dock queen, that’s not a bad thing in my opinion, mine was certainly.
Reason is as a boat gets to a certain age, it’s most likely that if your setting out for some extended cruising, you may want to replace pretty much everything anyway from old electronics to the CQR and ancient windlass chain etc.
Then there is the likelihood of if a boat was set up for serious cruising, it’s been seriously cruised, and may well be toward the end of its useful life, at lest components wise, engine etc.

If you buy an old boat, you should as a min. Expect to pull the mast, replace rigging, sails, upgrade the electrical system, ground tackle etc.
Or do it as you cruise, but I’d rather replace prior to where I can shop prices etc as opposed to having to do it now.

Long before I had my chainplates replaced, back even when I was shopping I knew that it was $10K, and surprisingly, it was the one single repair / mod that increased the value of the boat to what it costs to have it done.
It seems that the IP crowd, most of them anyway have accepted that the chainplates will have to be replaced and dealt with it.
Many of the ones with the newer boats that have 316L chainplates are in denial, in my opinion as I don’t think 316L is a cure, it’s better, just doesn’t eliminate the problem.
I do believe titanium eliminates the problem

[Kalinowski]

We're happy with our 1980 424 Ketch. Not fast, but she sails like a dream. Tor's boat is in tip top shape with many upgrades. Look at the Pearson 424 owner's website for a rundown. He's a published sailor with many upgrade articles. I would have bought his boat if the timing would have been better.

[Peregrine1983]

So I'm going to sound like another guy touting his own boat, but oh well...

Another happy 424 owner here. Tor's boat is probably the nicest if not one of the nicest 424's out there. We cruise our 424 in the Northeast US and just love how comfortable and safe she feels. She's very stiff and when everyone else is heading in because it's too windy and swelly that's when we're just starting to have fun.

Kalinowski - How old are your sails? Our light air performance used to suck, but now we have all new sails and she really hauls.

424's have one of the largest cockpits you'll ever see in a 42' boat. Since it's where we spend 99% of our time, we really appreciate its size. I'm 6'0" and I usually stretch out completely to sleep in the cockpit while my wife is on watch... Even stretched out, there's still enough space at the end of the bench for one or two of our dogs to sleep. It's really big. If you're serious about the roaring 40's you'll probably want to take up some of the volume with well-secured coolers water jugs, etc to take up some space.

I also love the high bulwarks... just makes going forward underway feel more safe.

The one thing I would change about our 424 is the belts on the engine and water pump are a bit hard to reach as it's reverse mounted with a V-drive. However the V-drive has never given us issues.

As with any 30 year old boat - get a rigging inspection before going anywhere.

The classic lines turn heads everywhere... We tons of nice comments from passersby.

[model 10]

[QUOTE=a64pilot;
Long before I had my chainplates replaced, back even when I was shopping I knew that it was $10K, and surprisingly, it was the one single repair / mod that increased the value of the boat to what it costs to have it done.


A guy might make some money on an IP then? There is one near me for sale that has gotten pretty cheap. You could put in the new chainplates yourself, buff it out etc and not lose money on a sailboat.