Ethics of the Big Delivery Companies

[foolishsailor]

...Mr. Anstess, 55, was skippering the 44 ft. catamaran Catshot for yacht delivery company Reliance Yacht Management, based in Farnborough, Hampshire, United Kingdom.


Despite his warnings about the weather, outlining an alternative route and suggesting they lay up in San Diego for the winter, he was pressured into continuing. The three were killed when the catamaran capsized during a massive storm. Mr. Anstess’s body was never recovered...


full article here


Details of Yacht Delivery Deaths from 2006 Revealed | Cruising Compass

edit: oops more info in this link - including statement by Reliance Yachting

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Yach...ail/story.html

[atoll]

i belive there are legal proceedings against Reliance,and they are no longer trading.
lots more info on Yachting and Boating World - Sailing and motor boats for sale, forums, news | ybw

[lolarose]

he was pressured into continuing
---------------------------------------
why he did not refuse.... bit greedy for few more bucks.
and now blame "company". they did not point gun in his forehed and forced him to do that delivery

[boatman61]

Every delivery skipper is under pressure to 'Get There...'

[atoll]

here is another delivery by reliance in the atlantic that resulted in a death and loss of vessel ,for simmilar reasons,starting to see a pattern here

L&A Cruiser's Forum • View topic - terrifying Lagoon 380 capsize story

[donradcliffe]

The pattern is catamarans, sailing out of season.

[Southern Star]

Funny, but since these two losses from several years ago (and which we have already covered in past discussions) I am not aware of any of the hundereds of new cats a year being delivered across oceans that have capsized, or pitchpoled. Or maybe I missed one....

Nevertheless, these are boats that are not equipped for offshore passages (no storm sails, no series drogues or para-anchors) that are being sailed into deteriorating conditions, in the wrong season, in order to make (or save) a buck and expedite the delivery. Good thing Reliance Yacht Management lost the lawsuit and that they are now (reportedly) out of business.

Brad

[Jimbo485]

Wasn´t there a Chris White cat that flipped a couple of years ago near Tonga?

From memory, it wasn´t a delivery, they were just cruising and got hit by a squall with no one near the autopilot or the sheets.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Every delivery skipper is under pressure to 'Get There...'

Yep. I turned down two offers this year to sail down through the gulf stream during the storm season. Good money, great experience, and absolutely not worth the hassle (to me).

When you're a "merchant" mariner you don't have the luxury of waiting on good weather, and as long as vessels have been used in commerce the captains of those vessels have had to balance safety with schedules. Go too far to on either side and you'll either be dead or unemployed.

No one is doing deliveries (or even being a captain at all) for the money. You could open up a laundry mat and make ten times as much. You're doing it because you enjoy it, and it pays the bills. Being dead is neither enjoyable nor profitable.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

Wasn´t there a Chris White cat that flipped a couple of years ago near Tonga?

From memory, it wasn´t a delivery, they were just cruising and got hit by a squall with no one near the autopilot or the sheets.

I thought catamarans don't capsize....

[Jimbo485]

no, they flip!

[Capt Phil]

+1 Rebel Heart. When I was younger and more adventuresome (foolish, immortal, etc), I would accept deliveries of poorly equipped vessels, sail north on the west coast in January, sail shorthanded to make a buck but as I aged and gained a bit more common sense with the years, had no trouble turning down jobs and I'm still on the right side of the grass. I recall one client whose boat I took to Ensenada from LA then back again and did some local skippering for him. He asked me to deliver it her to San Francisco one February which I declined to do much to his annoyance. He left with another skipper he hired and made it as far as about 20 miles off San Simeon where the vessel caught fire and sank... thankfully with no loss of life.
With your attitude, you will live a long and hopefully profitable life. Cheers, Capt Phil

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Yep. I turned down two offers this year to sail down through the gulf stream during the storm season. Good money, great experience, and absolutely not worth the hassle (to me).

When you're a "merchant" mariner you don't have the luxury of waiting on good weather, and as long as vessels have been used in commerce the captains of those vessels have had to balance safety with schedules. Go too far to on either side and you'll either be dead or unemployed.

No one is doing deliveries (or even being a captain at all) for the money. You could open up a laundry mat and make ten times as much. You're doing it because you enjoy it, and it pays the bills. Being dead is neither enjoyable nor profitable.

There are captain jobs that pay well enough...but making a living doing deliveries and charters aren't two that I would say a high percentage of captains do well.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

+1 Rebel Heart. When I was younger and more adventuresome (foolish, immortal, etc), I would accept deliveries of poorly equipped vessels, sail north on the west coast in January, sail shorthanded to make a buck but as I aged and gained a bit more common sense with the years, had no trouble turning down jobs and I'm still on the right side of the grass. I recall one client whose boat I took to Ensenada from LA then back again and did some local skippering for him. He asked me to deliver it her to San Francisco one February which I declined to do much to his annoyance. He left with another skipper he hired and made it as far as about 20 miles off San Simeon where the vessel caught fire and sank... thankfully with no loss of life.
With your attitude, you will live a long and hopefully profitable life. Cheers, Capt Phil

Thanks man. Glad you didn't get hurt on that boat, and that no one else did either. It's hard turning down money and everyone has to accept "less than perfect" arrangements to some extent, but that's up to every mariner as the level of risk they're willing to deal with.

Originally Posted by psneeld

There are captain jobs that pay well enough...but making a living doing deliveries and charters aren't two that I would say a high percentage of captains do well.

At least where I'm at in life right now, I look at it as a skill that I can do while doing other stuff. Teaching ASA classes, running charters, or running the fishing boat making $100-$200/day under the table for some days in the summer (and not so many days in the winter).

It's hardly a way to make a king's ransom, but for flexibility it's hard to beat. Even if I was otherwise unemployed as a captain with enough other certifications (and a reputation and contacts) I can make maybe a grand or two a month.

That's without exposing myself to any kind of crazy nonsense, and honestly 3/4 of that is inside the bay itself. I'm not even having to deal with swells.

[bobconnie]

Like Capt Phil, In my younger days I did a lot of west coast and Pacific deliveries.Back then if the vessel could stand up to my personal inspection( pumps, engine no major leaks,useable sails if needed) then off we would go either with crew or alone. as I look back on those days I sometimes wonder if the man upstairs had a plan for me!! LOL cus I ended up in some hellish storms hay Capt Phil remember the Columbus Day storm??? I sure do LOL, anyway I learded to say no by 35 LOl Bob and Connie