Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

For cruising the Med, no guns are necessary. Otherwise, may I recommend something sexy and utilitarian in a 7.62 x 39 for US coastal work... the perfect cruising companion.

I'm being serious.

OMFG!!! - I've seen and read a lot of things on CF but this one is terrible.

That wall is filthy...

[a64pilot]

I don't think wasp spray will do squat, I think it's just a petroleum distillate like mineral spirits isn't it? If you want a spray, why not bear spray, it's just a big can of mace (capsicum), that stuff will ruin your day. Now I'm assuming here that any substance used in defense could be considered just as much a weapon as any other substance? Bear spray will ruin your day, but can wasp spray cause permanent damage to your eyes?

In a civilian environment I've only seen guns used twice, both times no discharges, the presence was enough. One was funny, a friend got a call form the Police that the silent alarm at the warehouse he owned was going off. This warehouse housed millions of empty beer cans and bottles for the local Miller brewery, but from the parking lot of course you couldn't tell they were empty. Anyway we showed up and let the Police in and walked around with them and could find no one. When we were leaving one of the Cops unloaded his pump shotgun, I guess he had a round in the chamber, anyway when he racked that pump, we heard from 50 ft away "don't shoot". One of the teenagers that had broken in to steal the beer spoke up, they were well hid.

Point being, of course be prepared to use it, but often it's presence or a discharge into the air is enough to cause any sane person to reconsider their actions

[atoll]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Atoll,
Let me clarify, you can go almost anywhere as long as the very first thing you do is declare you have a firearm and be prepared to hand it over unloaded of course, and I assume the most logical way to store the ammo would be in a locked ammo can?

You've done this? If so, where?

From this forum I had come to the assumption that I would be better off trying to run narcotics and slaves than show up at a foreign port with a firearm

i did say ALL countries will allow you to declare a firearm on arrival.
but personally just a quick run through region by region;
,all of the windward islands,abc islands,panama,french polynesia,cook is fiji,tonga,vanuatu,new caledonia,australia,south africa,brazil,trinidad.

yemen,egypt,cyprus,malta,france,spain ,gibraltar,morrocco,

thats on the last 2 circumnavigations,with a semi auto .223rifle ,.22rifle,12 guage shot gun and 9mm semi auto pistol

[weavis]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't think wasp spray will do squat, I think it's just a petroleum distillate like mineral spirits isn't it? If you want a spray, why not bear spray, it's just a big can of mace (capsicum), that stuff will ruin your day. Now I'm assuming here that any substance used in defense could be considered just as much a weapon as any other substance? Bear spray will ruin your day, but can wasp spray cause permanent damage to your eyes?

In a civilian environment I've only seen guns used twice, both times no discharges, the presence was enough. One was funny, a friend got a call form the Police that the silent alarm at the warehouse he owned was going off. This warehouse housed millions of empty beer cans and bottles for the local Miller brewery, but from the parking lot of course you couldn't tell they were empty. Anyway we showed up and let the Police in and walked around with them and could find no one. When we were leaving one of the Cops unloaded his pump shotgun, I guess he had a round in the chamber, anyway when he racked that pump, we heard from 50 ft away "don't shoot". One of the teenagers that had broken in to steal the beer spoke up, they were well hid.

Point being, of course be prepared to use it, but often it's presence or a discharge into the air is enough to cause any sane person to reconsider their actions

You discharge a weapon in a country outside of USA and you will be in a world of pain. Unless its absolute self defence, and you had better be able to prove that, and sometimes even that doesnt count.

Generally if you remove your weapon from a customs locked container, there are so many questions and penalties that your head will spin.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by avb3

It has nothing to do with being for or against guns, however, it is a subject that has been discussed many, many, many times on the forum.

As such, it was suggest you do a search on the topic for the opinions that have been given.

You should be aware though, that firearm possession in some countries could result in harsh penalties. Some Caribbean countries even make it illegal to have any sort of camo clothing, which is so popular in the US.

A starting point for you might be to take a look at noonsite.com. It has a lot of information on the countries you may want to visit.

If your thinking of hunting in a particular country, one should do the same as if hunting in a different state... get the regulations. Using bait for deer might be legal in your state, but not in the State right next door. Remember, your a visitor in what ever country you enter, and it's their sandbox, their rules.

You might be better off rather than transporting your firearm on board if you want to go hunting, to have it shipped to that country by air.

This really good advice.

I am not at all against guns in general, and my first impulse would be to have one on board if cruising uncivilized areas.

However, if you gather the facts, you'll find, I think, these things:

1. It is an enormous PITA to comply with the gun laws in most states; and
2. If you make the slightest mistake, you risk horrible consequences;
3. Few places will let you keep them on board even if you fully declare etc.
4. Almost nowhere do you have a normal right of self-defense like in the US, which means if you injure, let alone kill, a perp in the process of successfully defending yourself, you will likely spend much of the rest of your life in a third-world prison.

You do your own research and make your own conclusions. But FWIW, the conclusion I came up with is that armed self-defense, or even unarmed self-defense on a boat is not realistically possible outside the US. And that therefore I am simply going to have to pass by those tropical so-called paradises which are not capable of maintaining law and order, and following other procedures designed to reduce risks.

The good news is that most of the world is acceptably safe; violence against cruisers is concentrated in just a handful of countries. In European waters, where I cruise, it's a complete non-issue. In the Baltic, cruisers don't even lock their boats most of the time.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by avb3

I probably have more guns than most on the forum, but I think the mindset of needing a firearm for protection is one that is mostly an American one, and much of it because of fear promoted through our 24 hour news cycle. If a kid burps in Pretoria, South Africa, it hits the news in Marseilles, France.

Avoid the north coast of Venezuela, and yes, sailing in groups through some cruising areas may help. But if your just cruising up and down the leeward and windward islands, just do it. Worry about storms and reefs.

I think it's entire natural to want to have weapons on a vessel roaming far and wide where there may be gaps in law enforcement. Certainly it is an ancient tradition. I don't think it's a peculiarly American impulse. But at any rate, satisfying that impulse is, for all the reasons mentioned, not reasonably practicable.

When sailing merrily through the Windwards, as AVB recommends, do avoid or be very careful in St Vincent, where there have been some problems. The Carribean in general requires care.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

Interesting. Laidback oldman dreams of cruising off Into the sunset. Finds a cruising forum. Of all the first questions he might ask, having zero knowledge of the cruising lifestyle, is "can I bring my guns".

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Give him a break. Safety would not be my last thought, either, when thinking about taking up a new lifestyle in faraway countries. It's a perfectly reasonable question.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Give him a break. Safety would not be my last thought, either, when thinking about taking up a new lifestyle in faraway countries. It's a perfectly reasonable question.

I should think that learning how to operate his boat safely would be his first thought.

Are we feeding the Troll here?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think it's entire natural to want to have weapons on a vessel roaming far and wide where there may be gaps in law enforcement. Certainly it is an ancient tradition. I don't think it's a peculiarly American impulse. But at any rate, satisfying that impulse is, for all the reasons mentioned, not reasonably practicable.

When sailing merrily through the Windwards, as AVB recommends, do avoid or be very careful in St Vincent, where there have been some problems. The Carribean in general requires care.

I've been to St. Vincent a couple of times to repair their crop duster and as such was with a local, there is a very thin layer of civilization there, but there are apparently quite a few charter boats, the motel I stayed at, I think that was their major business.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by atoll

i think we need to put this subject to bed once and for all.

it is not illegal to carry guns on a boat,as long as you declare them to customs on arrival.

in every one of the many countries i have visited you will find on your inward customs clearance form a section that asks you if you have firearms on board,if the answer is yes it asks you to list them and the amount of ammunition.

then your fire arms will either be sealed onboard,or kept by the customs for safe keeping untill your departure.

this is the same for every country in the world,hassle, yes but illegal ,no.

Thanks, great info. Only thing to add, though, is that when they lock up your guns, you do NOT have access to them, which was the purpose of bringing them in the first place, no?

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by atoll

i think we need to put this subject to bed once and for all.

it is not illegal to carry guns on a boat,as long as you declare them to customs on arrival.

in every one of the many countries i have visited you will find on your inward customs clearance form a section that asks you if you have firearms on board,if the answer is yes it asks you to list them and the amount of ammunition.

then your fire arms will either be sealed onboard,or kept by the customs for safe keeping untill your departure.

this is the same for every country in the world,hassle, yes but illegal ,no.

Um. Try bring an assault rifle into Canada and soon you won't have an assault rifle anymore. They don't give them back...

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Um. Try bring an assault rifle into Canada and soon you won't have an assault rifle anymore. They don't give them back...

I believe pistols too, although I flew all over the NWT and back with a 12Ga Mossburg with folding stock underneath the back seat. The Canadian officials though it a very sensible thing and even encouraged it. Seems they weren't so much anti gun as anti military style and pistol.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe pistols too, although I flew all over the NWT and back with a 12Ga Mossburg with folding stock underneath the back seat. The Canadian officials though it a very sensible thing and even encouraged it. Seems they weren't so much anti gun as anti military style and pistol.

Hell, we love guns as much as anyone I guess. I think it just stems from a different starting ethic. Americans have that Militia/self-defence history that seems to shape guns as protection first and tool second. We just like to shoot things (food etc.), so who the hell needs handgun and an automatic just makes it too easy.

Oddly enough, I think this ethos extends to knives because I love me a nice knife, but always shake my head at the ones that are designed for killing people.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by atoll

i think we need to put this subject to bed once and for all.

it is not illegal to carry guns on a boat,as long as you declare them to customs on arrival.

in every one of the many countries i have visited you will find on your inward customs clearance form a section that asks you if you have firearms on board,if the answer is yes it asks you to list them and the amount of ammunition.

then your fire arms will either be sealed onboard,or kept by the customs for safe keeping untill your departure.

this is the same for every country in the world,hassle, yes but illegal ,no.

Don't try that with a pistol coming into Canada, it won't work.

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[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Um. Try bring an assault rifle into Canada and soon you won't have an assault rifle anymore. They don't give them back...

Ditto Australia, including pistols.