Liveaboards or cruisers?

[BajaBound2024]

Hi all,

We are a couple in our 30s/40s that plan to cruise down the California coast with our mid size dog (25 bls) from the Bay area. We are landlubbers. We will rent out our home and move onto our boat in May. Our bay area marina gave approval for us to liveaboard from May to August.

Our plan is to spend August to December in the Ventura/Channel Islands/LA/San Diego area before leaving for Mexico in December 2024.

Before we leave for Mexico in 2024, my husband needs to work remotely from the boat 5 days a week. We can only move on the weekends. He has a management job so he's on a lot of calls. He thinks it might be easier to do it in a marina.

I've contacted a few marinas in the Ventura area about liveaboard slips. It seems they all want a recent haul out survey, insurance that's not Progressive, and even then, there is an extensive waiting list for a liveaboard slip. Some marinas are not pet friendly at all, some don't want older boats.

Our boat is from 1979 but we've refitted every system for cruising over the past 5 years. She's in great condition. We will have a starlink system for wifi.

I am wondering if we are thinking about this wrong, it seems very difficult to get a liveaboard slip in SoCal and we only need it for 4 months.

How do other cruisers do this? Could we live on the hook and work remotely? With what I described, are we considered cruisers or liveaboards? I feel like we are missing something...

Would love some perspective/advice!

[sailorboy1]

Cruisers are liveaboards while cruising, but live aboards aren't cruisers lots of times and lots of times the boats they are on is a floating trash pile and that is the problem. Some places have definitions of what a lveaboard. In the last 6 years of full time on the boat no marina has ever asked me if I a liveaboard. But if they did I would say “no I am a cruiser in transient”

[JPA Cate]

"Transient" will work better than "Liveaboard".

You are new "cruisers". There will be some places along the way where you would be able to stay at anchor.

However, "liveaboard" slips are very much at a premium all over So. Cal. They are scarce, hard to find, and get the use of. And while they might have a slip for 5 days at a time, boy, I sure wouldn't count on it. Although, once you have been allowed in, and they see you are compatible, they will try to find you another spot, at least some of the time. There will be uncertainty, so you and your husband will need some additional options.

Make sure you take the time to dot all the "i"'s and cross all the "t's" before going to Mexico. You need permits, crew lists, the temporary import permit, etc., etc. All the stuff you have to do will be in a cruising guide. Consider learning a little basic Spanish. They appreciate that you are honoring them.

Ann

[BajaBound2024]

Hi Ann,

Thank you so much! We are new "cruisers". That makes sense!!

I think we might be a little over attached to the idea of securing a marina slip for the entire 4 months we will be transiting through soCal. It sounds like we have many options such as mooring, anchorage and transient slips.

When we do reach out to marinas, do we ask for a transient slip? Do we say, we are cruisers looking for a transient slip for a couple of weeks? Transient slips are the same as guest berths right? Guest slips in soCal marinas are often listed at $2/ft/day. Our LOA is 40' so it would be around $80 a day. Does that sound right?

Sorry if this sounds so basic, we are truly noobs right now. Thanks so much for your help!

Good advice on Mexico paperwork. We do travel quite a bit in our land life so we are familiar with the paperwork dance, especially during Covid. I bought all the major cruising guides for Mexico, which I'll be reading over with fine comb shortly.

[BajaBound2024]

Thanks for the clarification! I know "liveaboard" can be a loaded word. In the Bay Area, there are many non-functional boats that are essentially derelict vessels for the unhoused. Then there are people who live on their well maintained boats in a marina who sometimes take their boat out for trips.

We need a marina slip for 4 months while we remote work and take short trips to the Channel islands. When I reached out to marinas, it seems like they consider anyone who need to live on their boat for more than 3 nights a week a "liveaboard", which required applications, surveys and special insurance.

Which is why we are a little at loss at what to call ourselves but I am probably overthinking this!

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Cruisers are liveaboards while cruising, but live aboards aren't cruisers lots of times and lots of times the boats they are on is a floating trash pile and that is the problem. Some places have definitions of what a lveaboard. In the last 6 years of full time on the boat no marina has ever asked me if I a liveaboard. But if they did I would say “no I am a cruiser in transient”

[Corvidae]

Liveaboard is in premium on both coasts pretty much universally. Transient slips for a few days are easy, just about everywhere. Right around the one month mark, dockmasters start to balk, and availability drops a bit. At 3 months or more, they'll put you on a list, that I'm pretty sure doesn't exist in most cases. Also North of Norfolk the docks shut off the water some time in November/December. So it's kind of a self limiting situation.

That's what I've seen on the East coast, and heard similar on the West coast. Although I haven't heard much North of Los Angeles. I'm curious what it's like in Portland/Seattle etc. But at the same time, the Pacific that far North scares me a bit.

[BajaBound2024]

That makes sense!

In our own marina in the Bay Area, we've met cruising families and couples who came down from the North and stayed for a few years while they rebuild their kitty.

It seemed they came here as cruisers, got a transient slip then stayed as liveaboards for a few years. I feel like it's a more common story than not. I imagine they must have proven to be good tenants and was then put on a list.

The PNW scares me too. I know I am not cut out for the rain and the cold even tho I hear it's beautiful in the summer. I need my sun to stay sane

Originally Posted by Corvidae

Liveaboard is in premium on both coasts pretty much universally. Transient slips for a few days are easy, just about everywhere. Right around the one month mark, dockmasters start to balk, and availability drops a bit. At 3 months or more, they'll put you on a list, that I'm pretty sure doesn't exist in most cases. Also North of Norfolk the docks shut off the water some time in November/December. So it's kind of a self limiting situation.

That's what I've seen on the East coast, and heard similar on the West coast. Although I haven't heard much North of Los Angeles. I'm curious what it's like in Portland/Seattle etc. But at the same time, the Pacific that far North scares me a bit.

[Calif.Ted]

Our local Boating periodical is The Log, they publish every 2 weeks with ads for available slips etc., annually they publish a guide to all marinas etc. on West Coast.
https://www.thelog.com/
https://www.thelog.com/digital_editi...gital-edition/
Most places will have waitlist of years, maybe decades for 40' slip, and little longer for liveaboard. "Transient" or temporary can be immediately available at twice the rate of permanent. Some places will lease a slip that is temporarily available while leasee is away and you may be subject to moving. When you speak to them say you have " a Cal 40" or whatever, Don't say I have a 1979 Cal 40. Permanent slips will require 1 million liability insurance with Marina named as co-insured, transient no one will check probably. Very few anchorages, because the coast is a lee shore and open roadstead almost every where. Those that exist are usually inside harbors and limit to 72 hours. Outside Santa Barbara is "Fool's Anchorage" so named because it is fine for weeks then can suddenly turn.
Limited Anchorages behind Oil Island White in Long Beach, Newport beach, Dana Point, Mission Bay. Longer term in San Diego check with San Diego moorage company. Couple moorings in King Harbor and Long Beach. Hundreds at Catalina, I'm probably forgetting some but that's a start for you.

[BajaBound2024]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

Our local Boating periodical is The Log, they publish every 2 weeks with ads for available slips etc., annually they publish a guide to all marinas etc. on West Coast.
https://www.thelog.com/
https://www.thelog.com/digital_editi...gital-edition/
Most places will have waitlist of years, maybe decades for 40' slip, and little longer for liveaboard. "Transient" or temporary can be immediately available at twice the rate of permanent. Some places will lease a slip that is temporarily available while leasee is away and you may be subject to moving. When you speak to them say you have " a Cal 40" or whatever, Don't say I have a 1979 Cal 40. Permanent slips will require 1 million liability insurance with Marina named as co-insured, transient no one will check probably. Very few anchorages, because the coast is a lee shore and open roadstead almost every where. Those that exist are usually inside harbors and limit to 72 hours. Outside Santa Barbara is "Fool's Anchorage" so named because it is fine for weeks then can suddenly turn.
Limited Anchorages behind Oil Island White in Long Beach, Newport beach, Dana Point, Mission Bay. Longer term in San Diego check with San Diego moorage company. Couple moorings in King Harbor and Long Beach. Hundreds at Catalina, I'm probably forgetting some but that's a start for you.

Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Looks like I'll be switching readership from Latitude 38 for The Log soon!

[JPA Cate]

There used to be another rag, maybe it's still around: Longitude 122.

Downwind Marine (much smaller than West) has been supporting new cruisers in San Diego for many, many years. A very helpful business.

You'll work it out, the two of you, it is a process, and it is interactive in the sense that what you experience changes you, and so it keeps on changing a bit over time.

Ann

[BajaBound2024]

Hi Ann, thanks for the tip! Downwind Marine's cruising guide looks super handy too. We are always on the look out for a good local chandlery.

You are so right about how the experience might change us. We are purposely not making plans past 2024 because we are not sure who we might be or what we might want after the cruise. It's impossible to tell the future. So we will wait and see!

[BajaBound2024]

Some update!

I spoke with a very nice marina manager who has processed our slip application. She has promised to do her best to find us a liveaboard slip when we arrive. We feel very lucky and we are going to stay as flexible as possible.

I am blown away by the kindness and support this community has shown us.

Thank you all!

[Jim Cate]

BB, reading your posts has brought back some memories... from 1986 when Ann and I left SFB and arrived in San Diego, heading for Mexico and the SP. Now, all these years later we are still enjoying the life afloat.

It is always worth being upfront, polite, friendly and non-threatening when dealing with marinas (or anyone else). They are accosted by so many aholes with entitled attitudes and unreasonable demands that a civil and friendly mien is appreciated and will often open doors closed to others. Or at least that has been our experience throughout our cruising life.

So, good luck with your adventures and your cruising life. I'll watch these pages for updates.

Jim

[BajaBound2024]

Hi Jim,

Reading your words made me feel so grateful for what we are about to embark on.

Knowing you and Ann had once been in our shoes, but have since gone onto so many of the destinations we dream of, is an inspiration and a comfort to me.

To be honest, parts of us are scared to death to let go of the edge of the pool. We have a comfortable life, good jobs and a nice enough house. But we are also dying inside. We really pushed ourselves to make this happen and to be ok with the uncertainty with what the future will bring. We are trying to have faith.

Seeing couples like you and Ann, still in love with the watery life after all these years give us hope that maybe it might work out for us too. So thank you!

And very wise words regarding being upfront, polite and friendly. I am a big believer in treating others the same as how I like to be treated, so I 100% agree!

[Davidadventure]

Hi all,

I’m a complete noob to sailing but my wife sailed in her youth and is great at it (I had some ‘in the deep end’ training on a Whitsundays voyage 15 years ago). I would like to purchase a small residence in a Mediterranean island and buy a Prout Snowgoose. I’ve lined up the training available but for me it seems life on the seas is the way forward. I’m not some yuppie looking for a bit of fun but I would love the freedom. I can do my job with a laptop but this forum seems ideal for any advice I might need. I’ve spoken to the owner of a Prout I like in London. These posts make me believe that I can ‘live the dream’ but am I dreaming? Apologies if this is inappropriate. I currently own prime real estate in London but I fear that the economy’s going to hell and would like to sail away. My IFA thinks I’m mad but that’s in their interests I suppose.