Land home, yes or no?

[Pelagic]

On Simi's point about Age and Medical services favouring large communities, I know that I would be much happier living my final years in a quiet location, even if that meant a premature death.

Come to think about it, from which perspective would you rather see your final sunsets?

[Donald Bryden]

I went a different route than most. During the time I was building my boat, I rented a place. When the time came to sail away, I had a lot of personal property that I didn't want to part with. I decided to buy a relatively inexpensive place in the Nevada desert. The dry conditions and lack of temperature extremes are good for storage. I found a beautiful place on a natural lake that was going for a song. Also, at the time I was an avid snow skier so this place was perfect for me. We now spend about 9 months on the boat and three months on land. After leaving, I met many cruisers who sold everything. I thought they had made a mistake, but it turns out they sold during the real estate bubble and made out well. Another thing that comes up often with cruisers is grandchildren. So my conclusion is that it depends on the person and the situation they find themselves in. Personally, I like coming home. I get a good feeling when the immigration officer says welcome home. Also, when returning to our boat, we always take suitcases of boat gear that is needed on board and impossible to find in less developed countries. Most venues we cruised to have a favorable cruising season and a period when most cruisers hole up somewhere. That is the time we haul out and return state-
side.

[jkindredpdx]

My land home is a cabin on Mt Hood that I use as a base of operations for skiing, hiking, etc. There is no mortgage and I can close it up for weeks or months with little concern about it's well-being.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

We sold. But kept the most important stuff in storage.

But there is a big downside to selling: if you are not in the real estate market with ownership, the real estate world moves on and gets expensive to get back in (in many places) .
One example:
10 Years ago the average Seattle real estate was $279k. Today it is near $700k. So if you sold 10 years ago, not only did you leave $420k profit on the table, you are going to have a helluva time getting back in. If you kept that house somehow and went cruising, the profit would have paid for your boat, and your cruise + some. Free cruise!

Your numbers sound like they show some extreme advantage to real estate. Firstly you are going from a particular low in RE prices in a location that had a very large jump. In addition people tend to live close to Seattle for the jobs, something that a returning, retired cruiser might not need - meaning they can live 100 miles away in a nicer environment for much lower real estate prices.
Let's say you took the $279k out of the house in 2009 and put it into the market. The market ( as represented by the Dow) has gone up about 2.35 times since then, making the 279 into $655k. Making that $700 for a house not look as daunting.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

We sold. But kept the most important stuff in storage.

But there is a big downside to selling: if you are not in the real estate market with ownership, the real estate world moves on and gets expensive to get back in (in many places) .
One example:
10 Years ago the average Seattle real estate was $279k. Today it is near $700k. So if you sold 10 years ago, not only did you leave $420k profit on the table, you are going to have a helluva time getting back in. If you kept that house somehow and went cruising, the profit would have paid for your boat, and your cruise + some. Free cruise!

That is an extreme outlier, it’s like saying look how much money you would have if you bought into Apple or Microsoft in the beginning, so therefore the stock market is a cant lose proposition.
Land and houses in SW Ga are depressed and staying that way, land sells for what it did in the 70’s.
About $2,000 an Acre, unless it’s across the road and in the subdivision that is popular today, then it’s $100,000 an acre, but in 20 yrs that subdivision won’t be the place to live, so it will drop severely.

So yes, if you buy into anything at the bottom, your going to do great.
That is why it’s so easy to get rich in the market, it’s simple, buy low, sell high.

My prediction is that eventually all this free money will dry up, and that will kill the housing market, already people are stuck with the big McMansions, they aren’t selling, nobody wants them, add in a higher interest rate, and you won’t be about to give them away.
Watch and see.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That is an extreme outlier, it’s like saying look how much money you would have if you bought into Apple or Microsoft in the beginning, so therefore the stock market is a cant lose proposition.
Land and houses in SW Ga are depressed and staying that way, land sells for what it did in the 70’s.
About $2,000 an Acre, unless it’s across the road and in the subdivision that is popular today, then it’s $100,000 an acre, but in 20 yrs that subdivision won’t be the place to live, so it will drop severely.

So yes, if you buy into anything at the bottom, your going to do great.
That is why it’s so easy to get rich in the market, it’s simple, buy low, sell high.

My prediction is that eventually all this free money will dry up, and that will kill the housing market, already people are stuck with the big McMansions, they aren’t selling, nobody wants them, add in a higher interest rate, and you won’t be about to give them away.
Watch and see.

I agree it's not everywhere, but it's not extreme at all. So I guess it depends on where you want to go back to when you are done cruising really. if you want to live in rural Alabama you should be fine. if you are used to Popular cities or areas, you are not fine.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Catch there is as you age easy and better medical becomes important
Ambulance within a reasonable time could be important
For us now in our early 50's and younger, decent internet will be important , buying groceries online etc
shopping nearby , groceries delivered etc etc
Places in the boonies will likely not have these things.

Good points, however I think that in this regard it is not much different between living on a boat and living on land. Some places are remote and ambulance service is not close whether on land or on the water. So too with amenities, provisions, etc.



A friend of mine lives one hundred miles north west of NYC and if he has a serious accident he is in trouble. Even a medivac could be problematic as they may not be able to close (time wise) to him. It might be a twenty minute walk each way from the helicopter to his home.


Even in the huge cultural void of the suburbs, an ambulance can be a fair distance in terms of time.

[Pelagic]

I think if you happen to own a home in a very desired location chances are that it will continue to appreciate in value.

Even in a downturn, it will be the first to recover and always the most sought after to Rent.

So if you happen to own a gem, consider renting it as we did

[hpeer]

We had many investors contact us about selling our home. Why? They want to move their money out of intangabkenassets into tangible assets. So why would I sell my house? That would put me in the position they now want to be out of. It our house is in one of those desirable, walkable, safe downtown areas.

As to hospitals and future health care....I try to not worry about it. If I do it handicapped my current life, puts me in a virtual wheelchair. So I keep going like I’m 16, until I’m not, I’ll deal with that then. Surely not for all, but for me, so far.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

We sold. But kept the most important stuff in storage.

But there is a big downside to selling: if you are not in the real estate market with ownership, the real estate world moves on and gets expensive to get back in (in many places) .
One example:
10 Years ago the average Seattle real estate was $279k. Today it is near $700k. So if you sold 10 years ago, not only did you leave $420k profit on the table, you are going to have a helluva time getting back in. If you kept that house somehow and went cruising, the profit would have paid for your boat, and your cruise + some. Free cruise!

This is a consideration, but not necessarily a downside. First, if the money from a sale is invested wisely, it may not even be a consideration. Second, when housing goes up like that often taxes go up, so one may not be able to afford living in their own home even if they keep it.

South of me on the Jersey Shore, the mayor of Egg Harbor had to move out of his home due to the rising values. Egg Harbor Mayor James "Sonny" McCullough and his wife bought land and built their home for $360,000 in 1985. The property was recently valued at slightly more than $1.1 million, which increased his property taxes by nearly 60 percent to $31,056. Oops.

Third, in some cases property values can go down. Detroit, Michigan in the U.S. is a good, albeit extreme, example. In other cities, even though the location hasn't gone downhill, property values have remained flat and lagged far behind inflation.

Fourth, one cannot assume that one will want to return to whence they came.

Fifth, unless they rent out their home or have enough investments to cover expenses, a primary home is a massive black hole in costs, and typically not a good investment. There are always exceptions of course but one cannot make a blanket statement about the benefits, or negatives, of holding onto a primary residence.

Finally, when she and/or he is ready to give up cruising, (s)he will likely be in their seventies or eighties. At this point they may want to consider a condo, coop, duplex, etc. so they don't have to handle all they maintenance a home and yard require. They may want their own home on their own property, but then again, they may not. It is also possible that when they retire from cruising, they may want their own home but a smaller home.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I agree it's not everywhere, but it's not extreme at all. So I guess it depends on where you want to go back to when you are done cruising really. if you want to live in rural Alabama you should be fine. if you are used to Popular cities or areas, you are not fine.

I would see this as part of the decision to sell, or not. Eyes Wide Open. All choices come with consequences. If, as you say, you want to be able to live in an expensive urban area at the end of cruising, then selling everything and investing in a depreciating asset is probably not the right plan.

For me, there is no way I’m ever going to be able to afford to live in places like Vancouver or Toronto, or pretty much any larger city. But there are plenty of wonderful places to live in Canada where real estate is a fraction of the cost of these places. This is where I will look if/when the time comes to swallow the anchor.

As for care needs, and speaking for Canada, most small communities provide a reasonable level of basic care. Outside of very small or very remote places, there is usually a hospital within a reasonable distance. And in some cases it's easier to find a primary care physician in a smaller community vs a large centre.

Specialized services are where small communities are really lacking, so if you develop a rare or challenging health issue, then a small town is not where you want to live. But in general, a town of 2000 or larger will give decent access to most general healthcare services — at least this is so in Canada.

[hpeer]

Mike,

How many towns in Newfoundland with a population of more than 2,000? Our place has about 70. I would have to go to Bonavista or Clarenville to see those numbers. LOL

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Mike,

How many towns in Newfoundland with a population of more than 2,000? Our place has about 70. I would have to go to Bonavista or Clarenville to see those numbers. LOL

Yeah… maybe not NFLD .

[alansmith]

I will never be a cruiser ‘per se’. It is just the way my life worked out. But I retire next year and have paid medical for life and a decent retirement. Everything paid for. Built a studio in the basement and rent it for a grand. Own two sailor trailerable. Will divest myself of the unstayed twin masted Sharpie because she is not meant for anything other than day sailing.

Will keep the house and my wife will be happy. I may only live aboard for 3-4 months at a time. While I explore new venues. Then trailer her north, south, east, or west for better climate and new adventures. Travel with the missus to places of historical interest or beauty. It is the plan anyway. Never felt the need to cross oceans. For me s boat is the magic carpet to adventure. A tool as it were.

Different strokes for different folks. I know yachtsman that think they are the ‘end all’ and be all’... and I see folks like the Cates who are humble and knowledgeable and willing to share without prejudice. I will keep my boat simple and on a trailer. I have a little over 20 K in her. And that ain’t nothing compared to the million dollar cats out there. Hell... I doubt the cost of my boat would even cover some of the sails on a 50+ footer.

I’ve got cash flow for life, paid medical for life, a good boat for my coastal adventures, and a wife who adores me ( and I love her the same).... what more can a man ask for at this juncture in life? Bless all of our dreams and enjoy the hell out of how lucky we are to be in such positions to enjoy the beauty of ocean life. Don’t matter how u doin it

[Mike OReilly]

Alan… so thoughtfully put. Your comments brought to mind the Stan Rogers classic: Lock Keeper.

It puts into song the different paths we all take. Neither is better than the other. Both encompass a lifetime of beauty, compromise, and loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0d4...&frags=pl%2Cwn