Aussie owner Italian flag

[Jim Cate]

except for this bit Jim

Quote:
Ships less than 24 metres in tonnage length, Government ships, fishing vessels and pleasure craft are exempt from the requirement to be registered under section*12 but are subject to section*68 if they are unregistered ships.

Well, here's section 68:




68* Unregistered ships not to leave Australia
************ (1)* An unregistered ship shall not depart from an Australian port to a place outside Australia.

Doesn't seem to apply to pleasure craft in foreign ports the way I read it, and again, it seems that this is supported by the many folks who operate vessels not registered in Australia from foreign ports.

Jim

[nwdiver]

Part of the "can't leave unregistered" has to do with your next port of call requires you to have your departure documents, so your vessel must be registered to get a departure document, thus you can't leave without it.......

But it doesn't say where the registration needs to be from........

I think "ship" and small private vessels have different rules.......they do in most other counties.....

I think these reg are for Ships........

[StuM]

Everyone quoting The Shipping Act seem to be overlooking Section 17

17 No multiple registrations
(1) The Registrar must not:
(a) register a ship in the General Register if it is registered:
(i) in the International Register; or
(ii) under a law of a foreign country; and
(b) register a ship in the International Register if it is registered:
(i) in the General Register; or
(ii) under a law of a foreign country.


FWIW I've sailed quite a few boats into and out of Australia that were owned by Australian Citizens but were not on the Australian Register. Never had a problem as long as the vessel was properly registered somewhere.

In one situation, I had a long discussion over the phone with an AMSA lawyer when leaving Australia because the vessel was not registered but had a document from the PNG NMSA stating that the vessel was resident in PNG, was not required to be registered in PNG and giving approval for the vessel to make one voyage from Port Moresby to Cairns for repairs and return Border Force in Cairns didn't read the letter properly and missed the "and return" and didn't want to grant a Certificate of Clearance. After the long discussion with the AMSA lawyer in Canberra, the clearance was given.

[NevisDog]

S.13 also seems to exempt pleasure craft, but they are still subject to S.68 "if they are unregistered ships" - but if registered in the Cooks, or BVI, or... they are not unregistered. Like the man says, it must all be read in entirety (but he used much fancier words).

[Factor]

You may wish to revisit the definition of Unregisterd Ship pursuant to the Act

unregistered ship means a ship entitled to be registered that is not registered.

[Factor]

My last contribution, as I have said all along, anecdotal experience is fine, but what matters is the regulatory agencies view:

AMSA advises the following:

.....I can confirm that if a vessel is Australian owned (regardless of size – a jet ski, for example) and sailing to or from an international home port must be registered on the Australian General Shipping Register with AMSA. Other countries may entitle foreign ownership, but Australian owned vessels on foreign registers are in breach of the Shipping Registration ACT 1981.

They further advise:

To register a vessel on the Australian General Shipping Register (I base this advice on the assumption that this vessel is a pleasure craft, not being used for commercial operations), please complete the attached set of forms:

· Application for Registration (AMSA form number 168)
· Declaration of Ownership and Nationality (AMSA form number 208)
· Notice of Appointment of Registered Agent (Ship’s Manager) (AMSA form number 157)
· AMSA Builder’s certificate (AMSA form number 211) or
· Statutory Declaration Builder’s Certificate (AMSA form number 222)

They attached the forms.
And they welcome any enquiries on the following email address

sro@amsa.gov.au

I suggest to the OP - that he contact AMSA on that email and they will provide prompt and informed and reliable advice

[IslandHopper]

Time for me to rock the apple cart

I sent an email to AMSA asking for clarification on this issue (i have always believed Aussie owned then it has to be Aussie registered, as my last 2 where) i also linked this thread, the reply below was received this morning....

Hi John,

Thank you for your e-mail. I have looked at the forum you provided the link for and it’s quite concerning with all the incorrect information being provided. I can confirm that a vessel that is Australian owned and sailing to or from an international home port must be registered on the Australian General Shipping Register with AMSA. Other countries may entitle foreign ownership, but Australian owned vessels on foreign registers are in breach of the Shipping Registration ACT 1981.

To register a vessel on the Australian General Shipping Register (I base this advice on the assumption that this vessel is a pleasure craft, not being used for commercial operations), please complete the attached set of forms:

• Application for Registration (AMSA form number 168)
• Declaration of Ownership and Nationality (AMSA form number 208)
• Notice of Appointment of Registered Agent (Ship’s Manager) (AMSA form number 157)
• AMSA Builder’s certificate (AMSA form number 211) or
• Statutory Declaration Builder’s Certificate (AMSA form number 222)

The first two forms are self-explanatory.

The 'Notice of Appointment of Registered Agent' form must be completed as legislation requires that each vessel on the Australian General Shipping Register must have a Registered Agent. The agent is basically the managing owner or operator of the vessel, and can be the owner.

The builder of the vessel should complete the Builder's Certificate. If you are unable to have the builder complete the Builder's Certificate (that is, if they have gone out of business or you cannot contact them) then a person skilled at describing a ship can complete the 'Statutory Declaration for Builder's Certificate' instead. A description of the vessel MUST be supplied. The statutory declaration can be completed by you, a boat builder, surveyor, shipwright or any other individual skilled at describing a vessel. Please be aware that the Statutory Declaration must be witnessed by someone on the list of authorised witnesses and who has a connection to Australia. Please refer to the Attorney-General’s Department website for more information at: https://www.ag.gov.au/Publications/P...atorylist.aspx.

Other documents required:

• An original or a certified copy of the Bill of Sale from the seller
o AMSA form number 159 may be used, which I have attached to this e-mail, should you find this easier. However, if you have a different bill of sale, that’s fine. As long as it has the same fields answered as the attached AMSA bill of sale; and
• Deletion Certificate (e-mailed copy of this is fine)
o This document is required if the vessel was on a foreign registry.

The fee for Australian Registration is $1,554.00 for a ship permitted to be registered. This is a one-off fee. There is no annual renewal fee. More information on fees is available at https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels-oper...istration-fees

Once the above documentation is in order, please scan and e-mail them to sro@amsa.gov.au for inspection, prior to posting the originals, to avoid processing delays due to incorrect or incomplete information. From there, once all documentation has been inspected, you would then be welcome to post the originals to the address below, as we require original documentation and cannot accept or process documents received via fax or email.

In terms of the time it will take to complete the Australian Registration, you should be aware that it is a two-step process; once your documents and fee are received, we will issue you with a Marking Note, which has instructions for the marking of the vessel with the name, official number, home port and length overall. When the Marking Note is received back at the office, this will complete the process.

Kind regards,

Pat O'Brien
SHIPPING REGISTRATION OFFICER
ON BEHALF OF THE SHIPPING REGISTRATION OFFICE

82 Northbourne Avenue, Braddon ACT 2612
GPO BOX 2181, Canberra ACT 2601
p 02 6279 5925
e sro@amsa.gov.au
w www.amsa.gov.au

......i always find it's better to go to the relevant department first, i suggest some of you get in touch with Pat (he is a good bloke) and clarify for yourself

[Jim Cate]

The wording of the Act is confusing to me, especially with respect to section 13, but the above statements from AMSA are quite specific. It appears that many folks are acting in breach of the regs. It leads one to wonder if the act should be changed, but that is far beyond the purview of CF members.

As a foreign national, I had to have my newly purchased Australian registered vessel de-registered when I bought her. Seems that AMSA is more ethnocentric than similar agencies in other countries... their prerogative, debatable utility in todays world.

Jim

[Jim Cate]

Further note: it seems that placing the ownership of one's yacht in a fabricated company in some other nation (as is commonly done for larger vessels) might be of interest to folks who wish to keep their boats in the EU or other exclusionary areas. Seems a lot of foofaraw but maybe worthwhile.

Jim

[IslandHopper]

And for those that may be interested here are the forms that Pat attached

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Further note: it seems that placing the ownership of one's yacht in a fabricated company in some other nation (as is commonly done for larger vessels) might be of interest to folks who wish to keep their boats in the EU or other exclusionary areas. Seems a lot of foofaraw but maybe worthwhile.

Jim

I think that many Australians who have no intention of bringing their yachts out of the EU will carry on as normal.

However now that the possum has been stirred I think that anyone bringing a yacht home should re-register...

Glad none of this applies to me........

[StuM]

The previous few posts raise an interesting question.

Does a person holding dual Australian / UK citizenship and traveling around the world still have to register in Australia?

Even if they use their UK passport as their primary travel document?

[StuM]

With regard to my previous post.

If the Bill of Sale shows the purchasers UK citizenship will the Australian Registrar be able to register the vessel?

[El Pinguino]

If you ask them I am sure they will say 'yes' because that's what government functionaries do....

Mind you it is a non sense law as it is totally unenforceable... struth they can't even keep tabs on the dual nationals in Parliament.

[beneteau-500]

Dear Pat from ASMA , my new catamaran will be launched in Oct/Nov 2018 I will not be registering it as a Aussie vessel will not be paying $1554 when I can legitimately register it on uk SSR @£25 .
The forms you kindly provided to island hopper relate more to M/V large ships not yachts under 24 meters