Aussie owner Italian flag

[Factor]

Well I suppose the OP can follow the law and advice of AMSA or the anecdotal experience of a few others. His choice - his risk.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Factor

Well I suppose the OP can follow the law and advice of AMSA or the anecdotal experience of a few others. His choice - his risk.

And what specific knowledge do you personally have to contribute on this subject? Any?

[jmschmidt]

General comments not necessarily directed at buying an Italian boat:

Anyone can reflag any boat in the BVI and get a commercial operators license for it. You can also get a temporary commercial operator's license in the BVI good for one year and retain your existing flag.

I don't know about Italy but a simple "resident" (Green Card) won't cut it to flag a vessel US. Your must be a US citizen or your company that owns the boat must be controlled more than 50% by US citizens. No sham owners allowed, they will check up on you and a jail term and confiscation may await.

The Dutch/UK dodge will work until BREXIT is finito.

The US duty on foreign built vessels is only 1.5% whether you reflag it US with the US Coast Guard or just state-register it. Some states will collect tax however so find a state to "home port" it that does not tax boats. But US citizenship or a US controlled entity is required to US flag. I don't think any of the trade agreements gives you any advantage with this but the US duty is peanuts, it's the state taxes that will kill you and US flag only may not allow you to escape that, depends on the state.

There are countries who build boats that are duty-exempt in the US, like South Africa, and probably many more. Check it out. I am on my second South African built boat. One was reflagged from French to US the other was US flagged since built, neither has been state registered and they never will. Some states require state registration even if US flagged, like California.

Good advice for Dave22q. State tax collectors are now more relentless than ever because their states are all technically bankrupt.

Good advice from NevisDog. Do your home work personally and with other knowledge sailors, don't grab on to any shlock "agent" that walks down the pier.

[hellosailor]

And once you start venue shopping...you will learn that a foreign-flagged vessel usually can enter your old home country as a guest. For a limited time. But not stay full-time. Or, there may be tax consequences (VAT, import, excise.) Or you may lose certain benefits, like medical repatriation assistance from your embassy.

Render unto Caesar, unless you do a lot of reading and learn about all the situations you may get into by trying to outsmart the full-time tax professionals.

[El Pinguino]

I don't think the OP is trying to dodge any tax implications which will only occur if or when he ever brings the boat back to Australia.
If he wants to keep her in the EU long term then it makes sense to keep her under an EU flag.
Factor..... where exactly does it say that an Australian citizen shall not own a foreign registered ship and what are the penalties?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

And once you start venue shopping...you will learn that a foreign-flagged vessel usually can enter your old home country as a guest. For a limited time. But not stay full-time. Or, there may be tax consequences (VAT, import, excise.) Or you may lose certain benefits, like medical repatriation assistance from your embassy.

Render unto Caesar, unless you do a lot of reading and learn about all the situations you may get into by trying to outsmart the full-time tax professionals.

That would have nothing to do with the yacht's flag state. That would be all to do with your dual citizenship. This came to a head in 2006 during a bustup in southern Lebanon..... Australia ended up evacuating about 20,000 'Australians'... Canada had to assist double that number of 'Canadians'.

What they were dealing with was dual nationals who had gone home to Lebanon but decided that it wasn't quite as good an idea as they first thought... pulling down an Oz pension while living in a low cost country....

Change of rules means that now a 'dual national' gets no Australian assistance if in the land of his other nationality. Lots of pension / health care changes as well which can bite you if you spend too much time O/S.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

And what specific knowledge do you personally have to contribute on this subject? Any?

Plenty. I have assisted a number of clients buying overseas with this issue and have had a number of discussions with AMSA staff. Like I said, - his choice - his risk. What about you - you ever nationally registered a boat in Australia?

[Factor]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Factor..... where exactly does it say that an Australian citizen shall not own a foreign registered ship and what are the penalties?

You can own it - no problem just cant go anywhere on it, see :

If you intend sailing your recreational vessel overseas from:

an Australian port to a foreign port
a foreign port to a foreign port
a foreign port to an Australian port

see also the Shipping Registration Act Sect 12 (3)

Where a ship required to be registered is not registered, the owner of the ship commits, in respect of each day on which the ship remains unregistered (including the day of a conviction for an offence against this subsection or any subsequent day), an offence, and, whether or not proceedings are instituted for such an offence, the ship may be detained until registration is effected.

But like I have said, the safest path is for the OP to contact AMSA and seek their advice, and keep a record on that advice if they say it doesn't need to be registered

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Factor

You can own it - no problem just cant go anywhere on it, see : see also the Shipping Registration Act Sect 12 (3) ........

Utter nonsense.. to go from one foreign country to another your yacht must be registered.... it doesn't need to be registered in Australia.. even if the only nationality you have is Australian. Several Australian friends of mine are making international voyages all the time in Cook Islands registered yachts that they own.... as am I in my British registered yacht.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Factor

...Or he can listen to internet chatter. Matter for him

Don't you realise you are only offering internet chatter, like everyone else on this forum? You are not the font of all knowledge on registering in the Cook Islands, or anywhere other than perhaps Australia, which you seem to imagine is the only option. I have registered an Australian yacht here in NZ but am now waiting to deregister my current yacht from Italian registry so I can register in IoM (UK) - my choice, nothing remotely illegal about it, zillions of 'foreign owned' yachts and ships register there, and for very good reason.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Factor

Ah no - its not internet chatter, its quotes from legislation and AMSA Policy documents.

see above
Don't claim to be, just quoting from the Act and the AMSA Policy documents

I keep stressing, the OP should contact AMSA and get the appropriate advice, documented.

And where in the act does it say that an Australian citizen shall not register their ship under a foreign flag?

You really are lacking in clear thinking skills... ever wonder why there are so few Australian flag merchant ships around these days although there are plenty of Australian owned ships? Yep, thats right, foreign flagged.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

And where in the act does it say that an Australian citizen shall not register their ship under a foreign flag?

It doesn't - you can give any government you like your money if they will accept it, what it says is that if you are an Australian National, your vessel, MUST be registered with AMSA

You really are lacking in clear thinking skills...

Thanks - but I think its you who are lacking

ever wonder why there are so few Australian flag merchant ships around these days although there are plenty of Australian owned ships? Yep, thats right, foreign flagged

Because they are owned by corporations not registered in Australia, amongst many other reasons is that the provisions of the Fair Work Act do not apply to vessels not registered in Australia, even if the trade here.

Here is an idea, how about you read the ACT and the Policy documents and come back to me.

Personally mate I couldn't give a rats, I seriously am just trying to ensure the OP gets informed comment which he should seek from AMSA

[El Pinguino]

How strange that beneteau-500, Nevis Dog, and myself have all brought foreign flagged yachts into Australia and have had no problems at all, despite being Australian nationals... just lucky I guess.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Factor

... what it says is that if you are an Australian National, your vessel, MUST be registered with AMSA...

I believe you completely misunderstand the implications of the Australian regulations. Before offering your opinion here (and all you have is an opinion, like everyone else), perhaps YOU should first check with AMSA that your advice is correct. You might also ask them how many Australian-owned ships are registered under foreign flags. Then get back to us on this forum with your new-found knowledge. I think you will be surprised.

Let me just mention that, years ago, when I was departing Australia with an unregistered yacht, customs said 'no-can-do'. By that time I was ready to depart on the next tide - no time for a survey. Aussie customs officer: "Just register in the Cook Islands - they'll take your money and register her tomorrow." All he wanted to know was that my yacht was registered, somewhere, anywhere - he couldn't have cared less where.

[El Pinguino]

I didn't say that... he did.....