Scuttling a Vessel

[starfish62]

There is a steel boat close to mine that has sprung a pretty big leak and over the past few days has almost sunk daily. It has several leaks, actually. This is in the intracoastal and if the boat went down there it would cause some problems. The owner called me this morning and asked if I knew what the law was if he was able to get the boat out over three miles (international waters) and scuttle it after getting all of the oil, fuel, etc out of it. I have no idea (I'm not a lawyer.) He is apparently destitute and can't afford to fix it and has tried to donate it to several non-profits, to no avail. The boat is in Florida. Any maritime attorneys out there?

[Chief Engineer]

Call a scrap dealer

[denverd0n]

Yeah, he needs to turn it over to someone for salvage. I'm not sure of all of the regulations, but I am certain that there are many. Before you go deliberately sinking a ship at sea my guess is that the EPA is going to want to certify that you really have removed all of the gas and oil from it, as well as any other toxic materials.

Don't know what the consequences would be if he sailed it out several miles and then it "accidentally" sank. But even that would be more work than making a few phone calls and finding someone who would take it off of his hands. There are plenty of companies in south Florida that do salvage work. Does it have an engine in it? That alone, even if it doesn't work, would make it worthwhile for someone to salvage.

[starfish62]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Yeah, he needs to turn it over to someone for salvage. I'm not sure of all of the regulations, but I am certain that there are many. Before you go deliberately sinking a ship at sea my guess is that the EPA is going to want to certify that you really have removed all of the gas and oil from it, as well as any other toxic materials.

Don't know what the consequences would be if he sailed it out several miles and then it "accidentally" sank. But even that would be more work than making a few phone calls and finding someone who would take it off of his hands. There are plenty of companies in south Florida that do salvage work. Does it have an engine in it? That alone, even if it doesn't work, would make it worthwhile for someone to salvage.

He's tried to donate it to three different schools and to salvage yards but they say the metal $$ doesn't cover barge/crane, etc. But thanks for the ideas. This guy is a semi-retired marine who had some family medical expenses that wiped him out financially and he's sort of grasping at straws now because if it sinks where it is there will be a lot of charges involved with floating & salvage. It's his problem, but I thought I'd float the idea and see if he would be okay if he made international waters before the boat sank.

[Sabbatical II]

Asking for forgiveness is always easier than seeking permission.

[maxingout]

I would haul it out in a boatyard. If you are not BP, the fines for polluting with oil and diesel fuel could easily hit $50,000 dollars. It would be unwise to allow the vessel to sink.

When I was living aboard in Florida, a powerboat sprung a leak in a fuel tank, with fuel running into the bilge. The bilge pump simply pumped it overboard, and the fine for the incident was in excess of $50,000.

[forsailbyowner]

I think the proper way would be to remove the fuel tanks and engine, then clean bilge thoroughly. All boats are required to have that waste disposal regulations placard. It states from 12-25 miles off the restrictions are dunnage that float and plastic. So if uou go past the 12 mi line should be ok.3-12 mi metal is prohibited

[Bash]

I've done this as part of an artificial reef project. All wiring, electrical and electronic systems need to be removed. All non-metal plumbing. All cushions and anything that could float, including floorboards, must be removed. Fuel tanks, any plastic tanks, engine, tranny, generator. Bottom line is that ALL plastic has to be removed as well as anything that's ever contained oil or fuel.

The boat needs to be sunk in a place in won't snag fishing nets. This is harder than you think, unless the boat is anchored first prior to being scuttled.

Bottom line, it's not easy to do it legal, and doing it illegally could lead to substantive fines. Regardless of fines, our biggest worry was liability, which I'm told doesn't stop when the boat hits the bottom. You drop a boat 12.5 miles offshore and it snags some poor fisherman's $12,000 trawl, guess who's got a problem.

[pressuredrop]

elie, is this the boat right by yours?, if you guys need help keeping her afloat ill take a shift pumping her out, i got plenty of time on my hands let me know...

[David M]

Its illegal to dump plastics at sea any distance from the shore and technically, paint is a plastic.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by David M

Its illegal to dump plastics at sea any distance from the shore and technically, paint is a plastic.

I went diving on some legally sunk wrecks this last weekend; they still had paint on them in some areas. I don't think it's practical to sand blast a destroyer before sinking it, but maybe they had a waiver or something.

All that being said, I'd be extremely cautious about intentionally scuttling a vessel in or near US waters. Anyone who sees a boat sinking would call the USCG who will respond, and now you're dealing with the long arm of the law.

Theoretically, you could do something like this:

1) get all the cushions, plastic, batteries, and fuel off.
2) go out with someone you trust following you with another vessel, who doesn't mind possibly being implicated in a crime. go at night.
3) go somewhere extremely deep. at least a few hundred feet, accounting for current drift as it sinks.
4) pop the thruhulls, open the hatches, get the hell off the boat fast.
5) get a ride home on your friend's boat, and hope it all worked out according to plan.

You can look at it a few ways. Plenty of countries get rid of boats this way and have been for a long time, but if done stupidly or in excess it becomes a huge problem. The responsible thing is to call a salvage place, or at least have it hauled out and towed to a yard.

If there is *zero* options otherwise, make it as safe as possible for marine life and sink it in a deep enough place as where it is impossible for it to interfere with maritime operations.

Know that your friend would be breaking the law and if caught punished. Worse, he could end up scrambling rescue crews responding to a report of a sinking vessel, taking valuable time (and tax dollars) away from real problems and potentially putting people's lives at risk.

[ConradG]

If the guy went for a sail and the bildge pump fell overbaord or got unintentionally shut off he would have to call mayday (once the thing was really under from his handheld in the dinghy)....what could be done? If a "passer by" responded so much the better. Even if it was a caravan of friends out for a sail, then no maday would even have to be called. What's the crime of sinking or picking up a freind in need?

[Jesse]

I know some people, who know some people, who have heard of people who make abandoned boats dissapear from marinas, never to be seen again. Ever wonder what happens to them? The boats I mean.

[SabreKai]

Strip her out of all materials as per the law, then make arrangements to have her hauled out in a yard 50-100 miles up the coast. Take her out and Opps, she spring a leak and sank. Having someone convoy with you is only a good precaution on a boat that leaks like a sieve.

PlanB would be to have her hauled locally, stuck in back corner of the yard and let the fellow chop her up for scrap himself.

Sabre

[pete33458]

but it's OK for the military to dump unexploded ordnance all over the place...as long as you put it on the charts.