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Old 12-04-2015, 19:02   #31
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Cutting across brings luck. Luck is obviously essential for all vessels and vehicles in Thailand..
I sailed in Thailand a couple of years ago and witnessed this same situation of power boaters driving like maniacs in crowded waters. This was especially true around Koh Phi Phi Don, which is like a cross between Wang Fu Jing street in Beijing and Hee Haw Village in the Smoky Mountains USA. I was not aware of any cultural superstition that afforded good luck to the driver of a boat that cuts across another boat. I attributed it to the hyper party mindset of this tourist mecca. After nearly being hit by a boat that seemed to be completely unaware of any of the other hundreds of boats in the area, I decided to move on to more beautiful and less trafficked parts of coastal Thailand. Thailand is too wonderful to pass up because of self-absorbed power boaters. We won't change the boating habits of testosterone charged boaters with too much horsepower, so it's best to adapt and enjoy. Just stay on the alert.
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Old 12-04-2015, 19:28   #32
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

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Originally Posted by oregoncycle View Post
They are going for an uphill battle as a simple Google search shows the use by some very creditable organizations and is part of the language used in Oregon's Marine Laws.
"Right of Way" exists in a few places in US version of the colregs for inland waterways in very specific circumstances. It does not exist in any version of colregs applicable to the high seas. Lots of internet sites get this wrong.

Edit: Correction - Right of way exists in one place in the US colregs for inland waterways.
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Old 12-04-2015, 19:48   #33
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

In this case I believe that by standing on and sounding the horn the sailing vessel was at fault as well as the power vessel. The sailing vessel was required, as soon as he deemed there was a risk of collision, to take action to prevent a collision. Especially not Rule 8 (f)(iii).

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(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects.

(c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information.

(d) In determining if risk of collision exists the following considerations shall be among those taken into account:

(i) such risk shall be deemed to exist if the compass bearing of an approaching vessel does not appreciably change;
(ii) such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel or a tow or when approaching a vessel at close range.



Rule 8

Action to avoid collision

(a) Any action to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship.

(b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided.

(c) If there is sufficient sea-room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid a close-quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result in another close-quarters situation.

(d) Action taken to avoid collision with another vessel shall be such as to result in passing at a safe distance. The effectiveness of the action shall be carefully checked until the other vessel is finally past and clear.

(e) If necessary to avoid collision or allow more time to assess the situation, a vessel shall slacken her speed or take all way off by stopping or reversing her means of propulsion.

(f) (i) A vessel which, by any of these Rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea-room for the safe passage of the other vessel.
(ii) A vessel required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel is not relieved of this obligation if approaching the other vessel so as to involve risk of collision and shall, when taking action, have full regard to the action which may be required by the Rules of this part.
(iii) A vessel the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the Rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision.
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Old 12-04-2015, 19:53   #34
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

This story is yet another example of why the term "right of way" doesn't exist in the COLREGs. The only reason it exists anywhere else is because the COLREGs have been misinterpreted.

Disclaimer: Does not apply to US inland waters. May contain nuts.
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Old 12-04-2015, 19:55   #35
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

That everybody has to avoid bit is nice, but apparently Thai power boaters don't read Colregs.
They seem to WANT to "Play Chicken".
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Old 12-04-2015, 20:01   #36
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

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Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
"Right of Way" exists in a few places in US version of the colregs for inland waterways in very specific circumstances. It does not exist in any version of colregs applicable to the high seas. Lots of internet sites get this wrong.

Edit: Correction - Right of way exists in one place in the US colregs for inland waterways.

Actually, the term "right of way" is used in the Inland Rule 9, para. (a) and Rule 14, para. (d) unless some recent change has altered this. This shouldn't become a semantics vs common sense argument however.

If vessel A has to "...keep out of the way of the other [vessel]...", does not the "other [vessel]" have the right of way?

Drive defensively, whether in your car, motorcycle or boat. Nothing in the regs, Inland or International, removes the responsibility to avoid collision, regardless of situation.
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Old 12-04-2015, 21:08   #37
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

In my experience, I have noticed two common behaviors that seem to be universal among operators of small commercial craft, eg, dive boats. One behavior is that of the macho operator who attempts to make every maneuver as quickly as possible - race up to a dock, only slowing down at the last possible moment; running the engines at WOT to get from Point A to Point B; steering too close to other boats and refusing to make any course adjustments in an effort to increase a safe distance.

The other behavior is the contempt often shown by paid (I will not use the term 'professional' here) commercial water craft drivers towards recreational boats. It almost seems like they resent the fact that we're out on the water for our pleasure while they're out on the water because it's their job. We're out there having fun and for them it's the same old daily grind. Perhaps they see it as one of the perks of the job to be able to instill some panic in the skippers and their guests of private yachts.

There is little incentive for the governments of mostly Third World countries to educate hired commercial boat drivers on the benefits of safety, common sense and some level of common courtesy. We spent a year sailing in Phang Nga Bay and always assumed we were a target with no rights whatsoever. It was still a lot of fun and I hope to return someday.

Fair winds and calm seas.
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Old 12-04-2015, 21:59   #38
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
It is naive to assume that a Thai tour boat operator has any knowledge or respect for rules of navigation. When we were sailing in those waters I always assumed that they were drunk, blind, incompetent and homicidal. As such we always gave them a wide berth and never had any problems.
That's the approach I take wherever I boat.

Encountered two kayaks today, making many course changes in the mile-wide strait. Being manually powered, they were stand-on vessels. Fortunately, they were aware of my presence and didn't cause me to alter course. One rode my boat's mild wake for about a mile while going at my normal cruise speed of 6.3 knots.

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Old 13-04-2015, 00:33   #39
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"



Just last week..

Tourist Ferry Destroyed in Blaze at Sea - Phuket Wan
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Old 13-04-2015, 00:44   #40
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Here's how Webster dictionary of the english language defines "right of way"

a : a precedence in passing accorded to one vehicle over another by custom, decision, or statute
b : the right of traffic to take precedence

This is not the same as "Stand on vessel"
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Old 13-04-2015, 01:04   #41
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

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American/Canadian, it doesn't matter where you're from. The only people that continue to cite right of way as being part of the COLREGS are from Ignoramusville (or maybe Tassie )
Not to mention most governments in Australia and training institutes. A long list have been mentioned. But hey, just keep ignoring them.
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Old 13-04-2015, 01:05   #42
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

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Around Phuket, there's a boat on fire, sunk, beached, on a reef, etc - with people drowning, going missing, being bludgeoned, etc... at least once per week. If you want a real horror show, look to the local news on traffic accidents (cars, buses, and motorbikes). It's basically Death Race 2015 on the roads there.

Thailand is ranked "third worst in the world" for traffic deaths.

All of this is well known to anyone who sails or drives in the region.

Back to the original post, still makes no sense why the sailboat captain - certainly aware of local dynamics - would insist on maintaining course and not turning off his auto pilot until it was too late.

Unless of course he was just fed up with it all... and thought he might teach someone a lesson.

Still waiting for video/photo from the passengers of the dive boat to be released!
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Old 13-04-2015, 01:19   #43
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
This story is yet another example of why the term "right of way" doesn't exist in the COLREGs. The only reason it exists anywhere else is because the COLREGs have been misinterpreted.

Disclaimer: Does not apply to US inland waters. May contain nuts.
Ho,ho,ho! Good one, RM!!!

Jim and Ann, both rolling about laughing
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Old 13-04-2015, 02:21   #44
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

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American/Canadian, it doesn't matter where you're from. The only people that continue to cite right of way as being part of the COLREGS are from Ignoramusville (or maybe Tassie )
didn't take long for the bullies to show themselves. The name callers.
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Old 13-04-2015, 02:30   #45
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Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Oh dear... deja vu all over again....

'I have right of way!/ I'm the stand on v/l ( take your pick)..!!!!!!
Crunch....
' Oh ... Phuket.......'
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