Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

[w1651]

Here is a even cheaper pipe bender.

[resilientg]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Just curious as to whether you do own stainless pipe bending - and if so how / up to what thickness?

Just bent this piece of 316 stainless for my duck board, it has a 5mm wall thickness and about 35 mm diameter.

It was pretty hard to find something in the yard to use but it worked out fine using some old elbow grease and some dirty big concrete blocks.

I used the hole in the top of the block as well as the gaps between them to bend my pipe, just alternating between to get the bend right

Just have to keep working it slowly into the shape you want

Matthew

[Weyalan]

The thing, for me, in buying a "fixer upper" was that it had to be usable from day of purchase (hell, I had an 1100 nautical mile delivery to make). So, basically structurally sound in hull, mast and rigging, with a working engine. I didn't care that almost everything else needed refurb, refit or replacement, but it meant that we could use the boat when not working on the boat.

In the 6 and a half years I have now owned the boat, we have undertaken some major refit work (detailed elsewhere on this site, so I won't bore you with th details, but see http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-mad-2654.html if you are bored and masochistic), but we have also used the boat, and lots.

Essentially, we sail the boat during summer - weekend cruising, longer cruises up to around 2 weeks, plus local "beercan" racing. During the winter we tackle an area of the boat. Some projects are bigger than others, some require being on the hard for 6 weeks, most can be completed on the water andsome allow sneaking away on the boat for the odd weekend while the job is in progress.

I don't think I would have the mental strength to take on the refit if it was going to take years (and it does), without being able to use the boat as well. Don't get me wrong - I do enjoy the work, have improved my skills a heap (they needed improving) and am proud of our work and have gained a lot of confidence in the boat from the process.

So six and some years down the track, every sail (bar storm jib and trisail) has been replaced. Every piece of standing rigging and running rigging. Most deck fitting, most electrical, all instruments, toilet, stove, all replaced. Still the same hull, mast and engine though.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Weyalan

The thing, for me, in buying a "fixer upper" was that it had to be usable from day of purchase (hell, I had an 1100 nautical mile delivery to make). So, basically structurally sound in hull, mast and rigging, with a working engine. I didn't care that almost everything else needed refurb, refit or replacement, but it meant that we could use the boat when not working on the boat.

In the 6 and a half years I have now owned the boat, we have undertaken some major refit work (detailed elsewhere on this site, so I won't bore you with th details, but see http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-mad-2654.html if you are bored and masochistic), but we have also used the boat, and lots.

Essentially, we sail the boat during summer - weekend cruising, longer cruises up to around 2 weeks, plus local "beercan" racing. During the winter we tackle an area of the boat. Some projects are bigger than others, some require being on the hard for 6 weeks, most can be completed on the water andsome allow sneaking away on the boat for the odd weekend while the job is in progress.

I don't think I would have the mental strength to take on the refit if it was going to take years (and it does), without being able to use the boat as well. Don't get me wrong - I do enjoy the work, have improved my skills a heap (they needed improving) and am proud of our work and have gained a lot of confidence in the boat from the process.

So six and some years down the track, every sail (bar storm jib and trisail) has been replaced. Every piece of standing rigging and running rigging. Most deck fitting, most electrical, all instruments, toilet, stove, all replaced. Still the same hull, mast and engine though.

I've spent 10 years on mine, but the weather here only allows outside work about 6 months a year and that depends on the year. We've about cloned each others (IOR's) except I did put in a new motor. I haven't up dated my blog lately but I've put in a forward bulkhead and built in a real head with a hanging locker opposite the passage way. Today I put in a refrigerator but still need to mount it permanent and wire it up.

But all in all it's cost me half the cost of a new boat and the surveyor said it has a $200K+ replacement value. And I'm not done yet! Just need a water maker and new/more electronics (AIS, #2 VHF, sat. weather, radar and maybe a SSB.

[Jaxxiam]

My first thought about getting my blue water cruiser was to buy a fixer upper, put it in my back yard and refit to meet my needs. When retirement comes my house will be paid for, the boat should be done, and I can cut lines.

The more I think about it, anything can happen during that time (what if).

I'm adjusting my plans to make it possible to buy a mostly ready boat when I'm ready to cut the lines. As I look at boats for sale right now I and If I was ready to go, there are more ready to cruise boats for a little less then twice as much as a fixer upper. Yes whatever boat I buy will need upgrades but I think the cost will be much less than having a boat sitting on the hard for years not being able to take her sailing.

But that's just me........

[WebWench]

We recently bought the boat we plan to cruise in. We could have gone with a project or fixer upper but with the amount of time we have to devote to our business and the fact that the time we put in there results in financial gain.....where with the fixer upper it would have amounted to time and financial drain.....we opted to buy a boat that is nearly ready to go.

Each persons situation is different and I agree that it takes careful consideration of your own time frame, resources and plans coupled with a reality check....to find the boat that works best for you.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by WebWench

We recently bought the boat we plan to cruise in. We could have gone with a project or fixer upper but with the amount of time we have to devote to our business and the fact that the time we put in there results in financial gain.....where with the fixer upper it would have amounted to time and financial drain.....we opted to buy a boat that is nearly ready to go.

Each persons situation is different and I agree that it takes careful consideration of your own time frame, resources and plans coupled with a reality check....to find the boat that works best for you.

Agreed!
But for those of us that have the skill level, time and the resources find that a home re-built boat is better security. For me, I know every nut, bolt and screw and how it's placed. Any weak point will be my own doing and I'll have to live with it if it goes.

Every void is now access-able and every space is thought out rather then just thrown together. With all that I have into my vessel I'd wouldn't let it go except to upgrade to a larger vessel. It's built to fit my needs, and handicaps. But if I had lots of $$$$ then I could pay someone else to do the work the way I would want it.

[WebWench]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Agreed!
But for those of us that have the skill level, time and the resources find that a home re-built boat is better security. For me, I know every nut, bolt and screw and how it's placed. Any weak point will be my own doing and I'll have to live with it if it goes.

Every void is now access-able and every space is thought out rather then just thrown together. With all that I have into my vessel I'd wouldn't let it go except to upgrade to a larger vessel. It's built to fit my needs, and handicaps. But if I had lots of $$$$ then I could pay someone else to do the work the way I would want it.

I fully understand and it makes perfect sense to do it your way if you have the skill and time. As a matter of fact we have friends who are kind of on the same schedule we are getting ready for cruising and they bought and are totally rebuilding their boat. Their reasoning is exactly like yours.

Their boat is coming along really well and by the time it is finished I do believe it will be much better than a new boat! plus the intimate knowledge of every part will make it that much easier to fix anything that requires it as long as they have the parts available. Plus they have the luxury of waiting to install the most recent electronics as close to cruising as it can get.

[janice142]

On the other hand, yes it is wonderful to "know every nut and bolt" et al... however that's not to say that eventually MOST of us out here long term will know those things intimately as well as those that started out knowing it all. There is much to learn however often I think old timers focus on all they know now versus recalling how naive they were when starting out.

As you gain experience (time on water, actually using your boat) you'll learn lots more. For instance, a few days ago I was wiring in a cigarette lighter and volt meter... and ran into a bit of trouble. My 12 volt battery powered drill with a paddle bit was not strong enough to plow thru a 3/4" solid teak board -- and that's where I want the lighter to be placed. Oh it was getting there, but a turtle could walk thru molasses in Maine during January faster! A couple on a nearby sailboat have a 19 volt drill and hole saw that will work -- and Saturday night we'll have clam chowder aboard my boat and he'll make a hole for me.

Do I need a 19 volt drill and hole saws in various sizes? NO. Really and truly, I don't -- what I have will work (it took 2 weeks to saw thru 10" for locker access (trust me when I say 3/4" teak that's 3 decades old is like rock!!!) ... anyway, when I see the lists of stuff you "need to have" and compare it to my much more modest set-up? I'm out here -- and there are a lot of dirt dwellers buying all this stuff.

And I a grateful to use the more powerful tools however mine will work, albeit at a much slower pace. And if I wanted something fast, I'd not have bought a boat.

I see nothing inherently wrong with purchasing an almost ready boat and making her yours as you travel. I will say however that going aboard boats that have been owned by a single owner for more than ten years and the identical design owned by short-term owner? Well, the one with a long-term boater aboard is likely far more livable and, were I to by a production model, that would be my ideal boat.

[WebWench]

Yes we lucked out in buying from someone who hah had our boat for over ten years and we still call him about every few days with questions! It really is good to have someone who knows each system on this particular boat. He also meticulously maintained it and added many of the systems himself. I really felt our boat was better than new because of this.

[levante]

Hello Kinda new to the Forum, Joined but been too busy Restoring my boat to get any real time to Post... I agree with everything posted so far. I would like to include : Get in touch with former owners of the boat !! In my rumageings thru one of my lockers on my Alberg 37 I came across an old Registry form of a former owner of my boat, there were 3 of them before me. The Coast Guard Form had his Address on it so I sent him a letter stateing I was the current owner of his former boat and the Guy who sold it to me had let the boat Deteriorate to an awefull state but I was goin to get her right again. I asked if he could offer any information on what he had done to the boat or maintenance issues he had dealt with while it was in his possesion. Within three days I got a phone call. The gentleman I spoke to had cruised the boat for 30 years with his wife. I learned about everything the boat had been through from dings,groundings,engine overhauls to hull fractures ect ..He was enthusiastic and supportive in my endeavors to restore the boat and made plans to come visit "My old boat" as he called it. I also learned I'd paid more for the boat than he had sold it for So we cursed the fellow who had let the boat fall into disrepair and overcharged me. That alone was worth the effort. A Registered boat or any boat that's been taxed will have a Record of the former owners and Address. I would highly suggest hunting down and getting in touch with the individual who has sold his boat as he will probably give it to you straighter than the man selling it.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by levante

Get in touch with former owners of the boat !!

Nice story .

Certainly worth doing - although my immediate PO was a cut above the average , nonetheless I have been in contact with some of the other PO's - albeit mostly by accident (them googling past my website!). Apart from some general info I also got the offer of a free sail that somehow never got passed along - albeit not yet collected and of course I have no idea whether any good........

[Casey1]

This is my first time posting on Cruisers Forum... Not sure if i'm even at the right place but I really need advice. My 1984 36' Carver has a leaking rub rail. It's now fall and winter soon so I decided to just cover the entire rub rail with a 2ft. plastic skirt and hope that it will stay dry until spring.
Any ideas how to fix would be much appreciated. Thanks for your time.

[sailvayu]

I used to be a production engineer for Carver back in the 80s. Carver used a shoe box hull deck joint with the rub rail screwed on. I would think the best approach would be to remove the rub rail and recaulk the joint and screw holes. As I recall these rub rails had an insert to cover the screws. Remove the insert and you can get to the screws. Good task for a power driver. you also may want to do in warmer weather so the rubber will not be too stiff. Not a fun task but not too hard to do should take a weekend or less with someone to help you.

[David_Old_Jersey]

For those still at the thinking stage, this thread might be of interest .

"Today I've reached my limit. I regret ever having bought this money pit, and I'm disgusted with the shady, unscrupulous, estimate doubling SOB, larcenous contractors in the marine industry.

I'm frustrated and overwhelmed with the sheer volume of work yet to be done and exhausted with the study regimen required to learn all this stuff."

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...oat-92198.html