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Old 22-02-2013, 23:03   #121
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

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Originally Posted by Teknav View Post
One should not be swimming in a marina for several reasons. First and foremost is the risk of being electrocuted by power lines with poor grounding. Then there's the high bacterial contents; enough said! As for fish waste versus human waste...fishes' is biodegradable and does not have the same composition found in humans. Urea is not water soluble, is found in human waste and kills/bleach the corals. Mauritz
I'm not sure how to respond to this. On one hand (while your concern is praiseworthy), Electric Shock Drownings are almost unheard of in saltwater marinas. Almost all ESD deaths occur in freshwater. Further, I have performed over 20,000 hull cleanings in my 18+ years in the hull cleaning business and have never once had a problem with electricity in the water. In addition, during those 18 years, over 1.4 million in-water hull cleaning events have occured in the San Francisco Bay Area alone without a single death, from any source, much less Electric Shock Drowning. So I think it's safe to rule that out as a hazard in saltwater marinas.

As to your second point, dangerously high bacterial levels are not chronic in any California marina that I am aware of. If there were chronic bacterial issues, nobody would be allowed to enter the water and the responsible agencies would be required to take immediate steps to remediate the issue. That is not to say that the occasional municipal sewage spill or (much more frequent) deliberate holding tank discharge doesn't happen, but a blanket statement that marinas are unsafe to swim in due to bacteria levels is unfounded. Again, I have logged many thousands of hours in direct contact with marina water over the course of the last 18 years. I have never had any illness that I could attribute to those activities. While deliberate polluting a marina with sewage is illegal, gross and definitely uncool, in reality, a hull cleaner like myself is at much greater risk simply driving to the marina than he is actually working in it.

All that being said, you are 100% correct in that human waste is detrimental to the environment in ways that marine animal waste is not. I find it amusing that some here use their ignorant fish/bird/whale poop analogies as proof to support their equally ignorant stance on illegal waste discharges.
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Old 22-02-2013, 23:20   #122
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

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If you use a 5 gallon bucket on the deck for your facilities, it eliminates the need for all this, and you can wave hi to the neighbors during your morning constitutional. Just sayin.
Is this why they call it a poop deck???

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Composting toilets are disgusting and are not hygienic; discard/do not use any. Peeing in the sink will eventually cause the pipes to get blocked, as urine contains minerals and crystals that get deposited in the pipes internally. Human urine, unlike sea creatures' urine, contains nitrates/ammonia/urea that kill corals; non biodegradable. Enough said! Mauritz
Please supply date with these claims...
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Old 23-02-2013, 00:47   #123
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

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Originally Posted by Teknav View Post
One should not be swimming in a marina for several reasons. First and foremost is the risk of being electrocuted by power lines with poor grounding. Then there's the high bacterial contents; enough said! As for fish waste versus human waste...fishes' is biodegradable and does not have the same composition found in humans. Urea is not water soluble, is found in human waste and kills/bleach the corals. Mauritz
But at what concentration level does this happen? How much pee per million gallons of salt water? I'm not saying it's not harmful but at what level and is that level likely to exist?
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Old 23-02-2013, 01:05   #124
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

Well, it is certainly bad form to dump pee in a marina, particularly if there is poor water circulation. I don't do THAT. It is a short walk to the facilities if you don't want to fill up your tank.
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Old 23-02-2013, 07:27   #125
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

Lets realistic about a little human pee in the water compared to much bigger inputs of nitrates. Here is a good article explaining farm input...
NRDC: Facts about Pollution from Livestock Farms

The other big polluter are storm drains. You wouldn't believe what I see in the water where I'm at after a down pour...it's disgusting. Literally tons of animal fecal matter, oils and tons of plastic are washed into Bay waters here. Here is another article on that one...
Urban Runoff | Heal the Bay

So to me...a little pee over the side in a fairly well circulated harbor is nothing.
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Old 23-02-2013, 08:12   #126
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It's just a matter of time, I'd think, when the poop inspectors will want to see that you are storing urine as well as dissicating poop aboard in no discharge zones. It's not a big deal but takes up space.

I peed in a soap jug for years when I was RVing, rather than fill the blackwater tank with yellow water. Dumped it roadside as needed. After I saw the intricate mineral formations developing on the inside it took on the elements of a science project. It's a lot easier to pee in a jug than in the sink or cockpit drains. I have peed in that jug at 70 mph! No spills.

Here's the thing: dumping urine in the sink will form crystal deposits on plumbing unless you are meticulous about cleaning. If you were that meticulous, of course, you wouldn't dump urine in the sink.

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Old 23-02-2013, 08:49   #127
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

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It's a lot easier to pee in a jug than in the sink or cockpit drains. I have peed in that jug at 70 mph! No spills.
Tried that on my Harley once but with little success...
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Old 23-02-2013, 08:52   #128
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

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Tried that on my Harley once but with little success...
You were doing it wrong:-)
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Old 23-02-2013, 09:03   #129
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Tried that on my Harley once but with little success...

That's because that Sportster of yours is a chick bike!
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Old 23-02-2013, 09:16   #130
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

I'm rather disappointed in the treatment Fastbottoms has received in this thread. Yes, he often promotes his business, but he believes in it and frequently shares good information. For those that feel they have the right to poop in the harbor, just take it as a scolding by your mother; it's illegal, you know can do better, and so you've been scolded. Grow up. The adolescent scoffing and poop jokes tell me more about the posters than the issue--while they may be true, they are a droll waste of space.

And then there is the misinformation, much or which fastbottoms corrected, but I'm going to repeat it anyway.

1. Electrocution in salt water is very unlikely as the conductivity of seawater is greater than the human body. In freshwater the situation is different and the human body is the shortcut. Google this topic and you will find the marina swimming/electricity/drowning tales are freshwater. According to Transport Canada "There has been no recorded electric shock drowning in sea water. Since the mineral content makes the water more conductive than a human body, the electrical current takes the more
conductive path around the body through the sea water"
3 children electrocuted in Tenn., Mo. - CBS News
Frayed wiring scrutinized in fatal electrocution at Grainger County marina » Knoxville News Sentinel
http://holidayharbourmarina.com/electrocution.PDF
I'm not saying we should not follow code and be careful, I'm saying we should understand what we are posting.

2. Urea is extreamly water soluable, but the calcium salts are much less so, about the same as calcium carbonate. Perhaps that was just sloppy writing. The net effect if no reef is near by is to reduce the amount of calcium in the water available to shellfish. Really, a wide-area problem, not a marina problem and certainly not a health issue.

3. Obviously human bacteria can be a problem; that's why he asked you not to pump untreated waste in the marina. The practice is also obviously illegal. While fish waste contains bacteria, it does not contain human specific pathogens. You don't catch a cold from your dog.

4. He isn't talking about open water, just marinas. Dilution can be rather limited when he's one boat over and the current carries it right to him.

5. This is the guy's job, something your friends are asking him to do because they're too lazy. Worker protection should always come before play, and we are just playing when we sail.

It's been simply disrespectful.
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Old 23-02-2013, 09:40   #131
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

An interesting youtube if you've got an extra hour and a half

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Old 23-02-2013, 09:42   #132
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

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It's been simply disrespectful.
With respect comes respect. With disrespect comes disrespect. If fstbttms would not have started insulting everybody, he would not have gotten the flack he did. I posted about it being illegal before he did... without insults... and got away with it just fine.

cheers,
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Old 23-02-2013, 09:58   #133
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
I'm rather disappointed in the treatment Fastbottoms has received in this thread. Yes, he often promotes his business, but he believes in it and frequently shares good information. For those that feel they have the right to poop in the harbor, just take it as a scolding by your mother; it's illegal, you know can do better, and so you've been scolded. Grow up. The adolescent scoffing and poop jokes tell me more about the posters than the issue--while they may be true, they are a droll waste of space.

And then there is the misinformation, much or which fastbottoms corrected, but I'm going to repeat it anyway.

1. Electrocution in salt water is very unlikely as the conductivity of seawater is greater than the human body. In freshwater the situation is different and the human body is the shortcut. Google this topic and you will find the marina swimming/electricity/drowning tales are freshwater. According to Transport Canada "There has been no recorded electric shock drowning in sea water. Since the mineral content makes the water more conductive than a human body, the electrical current takes the more
conductive path around the body through the sea water"
3 children electrocuted in Tenn., Mo. - CBS News
Frayed wiring scrutinized in fatal electrocution at Grainger County marina » Knoxville News Sentinel
http://holidayharbourmarina.com/electrocution.PDF
I'm not saying we should not follow code and be careful, I'm saying we should understand what we are posting.

2. Urea is extreamly water soluable, but the calcium salts are much less so, about the same as calcium carbonate. Perhaps that was just sloppy writing. The net effect if no reef is near by is to reduce the amount of calcium in the water available to shellfish. Really, a wide-area problem, not a marina problem and certainly not a health issue.

3. Obviously human bacteria can be a problem; that's why he asked you not to pump untreated waste in the marina. The practice is also obviously illegal. While fish waste contains bacteria, it does not contain human specific pathogens. You don't catch a cold from your dog.

4. He isn't talking about open water, just marinas. Dilution can be rather limited when he's one boat over and the current carries it right to him.

5. This is the guy's job, something your friends are asking him to do because they're too lazy. Worker protection should always come before play, and we are just playing when we sail.

It's been simply disrespectful.
I appreciate your support. Thank you very much. However I have never promoted my business here or on any forum. That is not why I am here.
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Old 23-02-2013, 10:00   #134
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

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With respect comes respect. With disrespect comes disrespect. If fstbttms would not have started insulting everybody, he would not have gotten the flack he did.
Excuse me? Exactly what insults did I make?
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Old 23-02-2013, 10:07   #135
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Re: Dump Airhead urine in galley sink?

What's the name of your business, fstbttms?

Nothing wrong with a little self promotion.
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