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Old 02-04-2013, 23:24   #46
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

I'm sure that you have heard, being a Jedi and all, that Sarcasm is the refuge for the weak minded.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:27   #47
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Jedi and Somedayy,

The use of the whislting guy threw me to with regards to sarcasm. Probably the wrong choice of artwork; I can usually spot sarcasm a mile away.

Now, you two should redirect your attention back to the rude underwater troll swimming in what appears to be urine, who's probably enjoying your last few postings and the resulting argument.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:36   #48
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
...said the guy who keeps his boat in a place where fouling is low and the sailing season is short.
If you are referring to Narragansett Bay when you say the fouling is low then you obviously know nothing at all the area. Maybe you should stick to the west coast when you make statements about fouling.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:42   #49
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I'm sure that you have heard, being a Jedi and all, that Sarcasm is the refuge for the weak minded.
And I got the feeling that you are a sockpuppet of fstbttms. Time to trace your IP.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:12   #50
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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Funny how all of you criticizing me in this thread do not have any skin in this particular game.... In any event, I am simply trying to keep boaters informed.
Ah...I hate to say it old soul, but your public information announcement rings rather hollow. Your worry that you may be legislated out of business seems much more the (covert) intent. And you should be worried. And when you are--and you very likely will be--we will welcome you to the Club. Ex-Californians. And for us that was tough as our family had been in California for over 150 years. There is even a street in San Francisco named for one of my fore-bearers. At this point I am happy to say I am (far) from California.

FWIW...
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:21   #51
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

FB,no-one ever told you , you catch more flies with honey, than with bottom paint.

All joking aside, I do find your contributed technical info interesting, seriously, I do.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:33   #52
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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When I proposed Legally taking my Legally sailed vessel Legally, to the Bahamas to Legally purchase, Legally apply and Legally enjoy Sea Hawk brand bottom paint which (Legally) contains TBT... You took to moral high ground and reacted like I was the moral equivalent of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceaușescu.

Now you say that if it is legal, you are ok with it.. And want sympathy for a potential change of the laws...

Not seeing it.
TbT paints are not legal for use in the U.S. or most of the rest of the world, for that matter. Justify it anyway you like, but using TbT is not cool, and you know it.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:45   #53
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

You guys should be less harsh on Fst, he may not be the worlds most pleasant guy on the web, but he generally posts solid info in an attempt to inform. I believe his heart is in the right place. I think many of the bitter folks on this thread have just lost one too many arguments with him. I doubt he posted this because he's worried about his job, it's already illegal to scrub bottoms here but the divers are doing just fine with just the zincs.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:57   #54
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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You guys should be less harsh on Fst, he may not be the worlds most pleasant guy on the web, but he generally posts solid info in an attempt to inform. I believe his heart is in the right place. I think many of the bitter folks on this thread have just lost one too many arguments with him. I doubt he posted this because he's worried about his job, it's already illegal to scrub bottoms here but the divers are doing just fine with just the zincs.
Sounds good but when someone posts misleading and incorrect statements about a subject as he has done elsewhere, that does a disservice to anyone easily misled. I think the intent of most of the comments is to forewarn others to take his comments lightly.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:47   #55
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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You guys should be less harsh on Fst, he may not be the worlds most pleasant guy on the web, but he generally posts solid info in an attempt to inform. I believe his heart is in the right place. I think many of the bitter folks on this thread have just lost one too many arguments with him. I doubt he posted this because he's worried about his job, it's already illegal to scrub bottoms here but the divers are doing just fine with just the zincs.
I appreciate the support and kind words but I must correct you on a couple of points:

1.- In-water hull cleaning is not illegal in Washington, as is sometimes mistakenly believed. The cleaning of ablative paints is illegal, however.

Hull Cleaning and Boat Washing | Clean Green Boating | Washington State Department of Ecology

2.- Nobody anywhere is making a living or anything like it by simply replacing zincs.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:04   #56
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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I appreciate the support and kind words but I must correct you on a couple of points:

1.- In-water hull cleaning is not illegal in Washington, as is sometimes mistakenly believed. The cleaning of ablative paints is illegal, however.

Hull Cleaning and Boat Washing | Clean Green Boating | Washington State Department of Ecology

2.- Nobody anywhere is making a living or anything like it by simply replacing zincs.

Lol! Pure Fstbttms. Obviously that's what I meant, and I assure you my divers are doing quite well on mostly zinc changes. Hull scrub or no, either way they have to get in the water.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:08   #57
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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...my divers are doing quite well on mostly zinc changes.
Seriously, what can they be possibly be charging you to do that and how often do they do it?
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:40   #58
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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What do you think happens to the remnants from a power washing at a boat yard. Do you think that it is disposed of as toxic or thrown in the dumpster(if swept up) and then thrown in a landfill where it then seeps into the freshwater supply. I know what happens, do you?
I could tell you some stories from my days at various large shipyards, but I'm sure you wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about.


I'll share what happened last year where I docked. The local shipyard was fined by the EPA $175K for allowing boat wash runoff to enter the bay. The cry from the environmentalists was "WHY WAS THE FINE SOOO SMALL???" As if THEY had to pony up any money. The EPA responded that a larger fine would be beyond the shipyard's ability to pay.

RESULTS!!!! The shipyard raised their rates for the 2013 season, some by footage rate increases and others by increasing the minimum rate for the docks. YEAH!!!! So now they will have enough money to pay their employees????

NO!!!! As I type this, that yard has lost over 40 slip contracts (I think the actual number is 48) for the upcoming season. The total number of slips at the yard is 146 so the yard has 1/3 of its slips now VACANT and last fall they had a waiting list!!! I have no privy to the yard's financial position. If they fail, a great marina risks becoming another condo complex.

Bring it on DO GOODERS, WE REALLY DON'T NEED SMALL BUSINESSES AS LONG AS THERE ARE FOOD STAMPS AVAILABLE!!!!
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:54   #59
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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I'll share what happened last year where I docked. The local shipyard was fined by the EPA $175K for allowing boat wash runoff to enter the bay. The cry from the environmentalists was "WHY WAS THE FINE SOOO SMALL???" As if THEY had to pony up any money. The EPA responded that a larger fine would be beyond the shipyard's ability to pay.

RESULTS!!!! The shipyard raised their rates for the 2013 season, some by footage rate increases and others by increasing the minimum rate for the docks. YEAH!!!! So now they will have enough money to pay their employees????

NO!!!! As I type this, that yard has lost over 40 slip contracts (I think the actual number is 48) for the upcoming season. The total number of slips at the yard is 146 so the yard has 1/3 of its slips now VACANT and last fall they had a waiting list!!! I have no privy to the yard's financial position. If they fail, a great marina risks becoming another condo complex.

Bring it on DO GOODERS, WE REALLY DON'T NEED SMALL BUSINESSES AS LONG AS THERE ARE FOOD STAMPS AVAILABLE!!!!
Well, gosh, maybe they shouldn't have just washed the toxic stuff into the water and followed the rules which might have cost them an extra $10??

Not that I agree with the rules, but some fools deserve to go out of business.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:57   #60
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Foggy illustrates the problem well. There are reasonable steps that can be taken to improve water quality, and then there are the reactionist measures taken by governments.

FWIw, I was born in the Bay Area. A rare California Native I still have close ties while I do not live there.

The America's Cup was nearly located elsewhere for lack of an environmental impact survey being submitted to the city of San Francisco.... This in spite of the fact that the city discharges their sewage directly into the bay when it rains.

Disallowing cleaning boats with copper based paints is absurd. So would it be absurd to ban them since nothing else works. There is very little about these discussions that is rational, and of course strong beliefs equate to strong reactions.

The damage done by anti-fouling paint is difficult to quantify. Even the studies that caused the (nearly global) ban on paints containing TBT are weak and inclusive.... Strangely consistent with the common inconsistency on these issues Some products are fine on big ships with much larger surface areas while being banned for us by the recreational market.

I like the discussion as it pertains to helping us all figure out what works. Tristan adding cayenne pepper to his bottom paint, or someone going to another country to get something that works are interesting and helpful.

I am glad we can still freely discuss the options, and happily leave it to the chemists to work out better answers while we do.
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