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Old 28-04-2009, 10:53   #31
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Here is a new wrinkle.... what is the collective opinion on fresh water vs salt water heads? Or should that be in a separate tread? I prefer fresh water. No smell, no calcium build up. As long as you have a good water supply they are great.
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Old 28-04-2009, 11:00   #32
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I think if I were building and designing I would want a nice big centrally located head and lavatory with a fully enclosed separate shower. Now if 2 couples or kids were full time live aboards I might rethink my stand but for unoccasional guest or even occasional guest seems to me that one really nice dirt home BATHROOM beats the hell out of 2 small toilet paper wetting, cramped tiny stool, 2x maintance heads.
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Old 28-04-2009, 12:03   #33
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Maybe an idea of how large the boat is you are designing will change some people's mind. For me we have 2 heads, and one with a shower. Then again I have over 1000sq.ft. of deck space. I have never measured the inside, but I would assume it is somewhere near to half.

We have the shower in our head. We do find it convenient, and private to have the second head in the other hull. It is shared with 2 berths, and when we cruise. We do have numerous visitors.

Then again I had a close friend who is an old salt with me. We were sailing along at about 8 knots. He grabbed a rope, and tied it around his waist. I was a wee bit confused until he walked back to the steps, and tied himself off. I knew then what his business was...lolololololololol... an out door bidet?.......i2f
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Old 28-04-2009, 16:27   #34
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he walked back to the steps, and tied himself off. I knew then what his business was...lolololololololol... an out door bidet?.......i2f
Oh, thats the other point about good heads... it reduces the want for the people to go over the side. Which must be the great reason so many single handers perish.
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Old 28-04-2009, 18:22   #35
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Which must be the great reason so many single handers perish.
It's considered a big reason too. Mostly it's the ones not tied off.
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Old 28-04-2009, 19:16   #36
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Or what they tied to...
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Old 29-04-2009, 08:39   #37
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Back on topic: If you liveaboard, the sea water route is usually ok. If you have an unlimited supply of fresh water OR if you are weekend users, you'll be happier with a fresh water supply - we certainly are.
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Old 29-04-2009, 09:16   #38
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Maybe no head?

Jump, dump, and roll.....
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Old 29-04-2009, 09:35   #39
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Oh, thats the other point about good heads... it reduces the want for the people to go over the side. Which must be the great reason so many single handers perish.
I think the ones that are tied off that go over is refered to as bait trolling.
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Old 29-04-2009, 11:04   #40
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trolling for Mermaids : )
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Old 29-04-2009, 13:45   #41
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If you are designing a boat to build and dont want two heads, two holding tanks, many feet of $8 per foot hose etc, could you design one as a "future" head, but use it as storage or a workshop until you sell in the future? or as one person noted, have the 2nd head just a shower with the potential of being a future head.... A separate shower is pretty nice.....
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Old 29-04-2009, 15:12   #42
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A separate shower is pretty nice.....
If you didn't have an enclosed shower a separate one would be nice over a second head, It also means the head can be smaller. There are limits where you can practically place a head. In heavy weather you can imagine some of the worst places to locate a head. A shower isn't used as much when things are nasty so can be located in more possible places. Allowing both to be used at one time helps. As a space saver our head sink slides out over the seat of the head when not sitting on the head. With hose plumbing you are not constrained to hard pipe realities of land based bathrooms.
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Old 29-04-2009, 17:00   #43
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Endeavour 40's have two heads, one foreward aft of the vberth, and one aft in the master stateroom. Both are compact, and have sit down showers on the toilet. I see no reason to have a seperate head and shower. When showering, the head gets a cleaning as well. Good ventilation will dry things out. And there is no reason imo to have toilet paper hanging like at home next to the pot where it gets wet. Quickly moving it to a dry place works.
If I didn't have kids, I would consider changing the foreward head to a workroom, or better yet a laundry, wife would love that, if I could figure out how to get it in the boat!
But it is true, that when it comes time to sell, many would turn away from one head. I would never again buy a home with one bathroom. True they are different, but the mindset is not for most.

And then think, a rairitan compact head takes up how much space? True there is the holding tank, if you put one in, but for a 2nd head, a very small one would do.
Or you could build a bigger boat, and then.... ah no to complex.

My ideal boat would have 2 heads. One at the base of the companionway, and one in accessible to the staterooms. One sit down shower separate from the heads. That would be nice....
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Old 30-04-2009, 05:04   #44
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I’m somewhat reminded of Parkinson's Law of Triviality*, which is the idea that organisations give disproportionate time to insignificant items.

The Nuclear Reactor, Bike Shed, & Coffee:

The decision regarding the nuclear reactor is so complicated that most of the members cannot understand it. Only two do understand it, but one of them is not willing to explain his stand against the other, who is more aggressive. So the decision is made without much discussion.

A bicycle shed is something everyone can understand, and a long discussion takes place regarding the material to be used, and it’s colour.

The coffee maker being the easiest to comprehend, the most heated discussion takes place regarding this.

* “... The time spent on any item of the [meeting] agenda will be in inverse proportion to the sum involved. Thus a 10 million-project may be approved in two-and-one-half minutes, while an expenditure of 2,350 - a much easier sum to comprehend for a much smaller item, something easier to visualise - will be debated for an hour and a quarter, then deferred for decision to the next meeting pending the gathering of more information ...” ~ Cyril Northcote Parkinson
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Old 30-04-2009, 05:41   #45
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I find the separate shower almost as "silly" as a 2nd head. Like Bob'sboat our boat has one head which uses a hand shower faucet for the shower function. The entire head IS the shower, the entire base is the shower pan (sump) with a teak grate over and it gets a good wash and wipe once (or more a day) when we shower. Why give over space to a shower which is hardly used?

The TP is placed in a head locker and stays dry and out of the way, but conveniently in reach of the head. We have ventilation and no odors in the head because the head gets a full wash daily and even THAT is not a separate task to be done. This design make a iot of sense... no need for a second head or a separate shower.

This discussion is really about how much space you have. My 36 came with a lav in the "aft cabin" which I removed because I can't see the point of it as the galley sink is 3 feet away and the head is 12 feet forward. I turned the lav cabinet into spares stoage. On a 50' yacht with more than 4 occupants, there may may enough space and need for a second head, but it would be very low on my list of how to use space since I sail with only my wife or alone and the very occasional guest.
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