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Old 13-07-2018, 10:01   #31
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

I read up a bit and evidently wood cellulose is far far more productive than corn for producing Ethanol.
But it's the US Agri Lobby that influences the use of corn here.
Same thing occurred years ago when the Japanese made paper, printer quality paper, out of banana leaves. Great paper... I had samples. And banana leaves are regrown rapidly throughout the year. But did it take off? Nope. Forestry lobby.
Ditto for the sugar lobby 100 years ago. Kept the competition out of US.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:33   #32
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

Update. It's going to be harder to find ethanol free gas. The prez has just ordered the EPA to up the ethanol limits to 15% year 'round and to close the loopholes that allows refiners to make ethanol free gas.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ol-corn-831493
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:17   #33
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

He suspects that the opposing candidate for 2020 will come out against Ethanol fuel. Many scientific studies conclude that growing corn for fuel is bad for the environment.

It's a bit ironic that now two of the biggest renewable energy processes (Ethanol and wind) are shown to be worse for the environment than oil. A recent paper concluded that wind farms will increase temperatures for about 100 years. And the "to heck with the environment political party" is promoting Ethanol. It's a whacky world.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:04   #34
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

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Originally Posted by rbk View Post
Most premium grade gasoline is ethanol free. There are also websites that list ethanol free locations mostly in the lower 48.
Premium fuel is an octane rating. Some old gas pumps are repurposed to pump ethanol free fuel if available. Premium pumps are normally not ethanol free. You will see a tag on the pump that advises “Contains Ethanol”.

YES, go on line to find stations where you can find it.

We had no problem finding ethanol free in Great Lakes and Canada marinas until we reached the US east coast. NY was impossible. Ethanol in our outboard fuel caused engine failures from attack on rubber parts three times beginning in NY. These left us helpless and in danger each time. Once in the Caribbean there is no ethanol. Locals can’t believe we put the garbage in our fuel.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:02   #35
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

Getting the ethanol out is dead simple, just add water and shake, about 1 qt per 5 gal. Too much water is no problem, it will settle out as in a gascolator. The "graduated cylinder" is as simple as a gas can with clear hose for a spout, and a valve on the end. Start with 93 octane you will end up with about 91. I have used it for my old harley, lawn equipment & outboard(s)
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:13   #36
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

That Bloomberg article about wind power that came out last week said that wind power was worse than solar - it was still much better than coal or oil. The author is a fan of solar. The point of this article was that solar might be better than wind - not that oil or gas was better.

And the whole study was flawed because it ignored that we have oceans. It made the assumption that 100% of US electricity would come from wind turbines and that all of those would be on the land (no offshore wind power). This would require millions of wind turbines packed way too close together.

His model claimed that these too closely packed wind turbines would slightly increase temperature ONLY in the continental US because surface winds would be slowed - ignoring that the warmer air trapped over the land would mean the oceans were warmed less. Unless something else is going on that he didn't explain, the net GLOBAL warming effect would be zero.

On the other hand, the slam against Ethanol is quite correct. Because huge amounts of oil is burned making the ethanol, it would create less climate change to just burn the oil in the cars. This has been known for decades.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:49   #37
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

Nothing to worry about as far as ethanol, US big oil is the reason for the fear regarding ethanol. They have a vested interest in swaying public opinion against it. For every person that says they won’t use it is there is a person that says they don’t use anything but. The fact is ethanol has been used for decades in high concentrations in Brazil the US and around the world. Ethanol is in fact used as a racing fuel due to its high octane rating. Oil companies like to blend good clean ethanol with the worst quality gasoline to increase the octane rating to an acceptable number. The knock on ethanol is that it absorbs water in the tank, this is actually a positive attribute as long as the water is not excessive. The ethanol gasoline mixture carries the water through the fuel system unnoticed. Ethanol is actually sold as a fuel additive to combat moisture in gasoline, (it’s called HEET). When NON ethanol gasoline is used water (due to condensation) settles to the bottom of the tank. This condensation occurs in most all tanks that are not pressure sealed in climates with moisture in the air. The water can pass from tank to tank as fuel is transported or stored. The water in the bottom of the tank can and does cause damage if it is not dealt with, it causes damage to metal tanks, carburetors or injection systems. Excessive water in ethanol also causes damage but it is less likely to accumulate. I use many small engines on a weekly basis. I have small Briggs and Stratton engine that sits outside unused for months at a time To get it going I turned it upside down to drain the gas from the vented tank, refill and it runs fine. I’ve done that numerous times. I’m still using it. It’s ten years old. Problems with outboard engines existed long before ethanol fuel was around. When a mechanic blames ethanol fuel for engine problems I usually dismiss said mechanic as to lazy to figure out real problem at best or incompetent at worst.
Regarding the hyperbole of using more fuel to make ethanol than the ethanol is worth is just more ignorance spread by agenda pushing lobbyist to a gullible public. If corn was grown for the sole purpose of ethanol production that would be true but the truth is different. Most corn is grown harvested and processed into several end products. Oil, sugar, starch, and feed all from the same kernel of corn. This brings up more hyperbole brought again by agenda pushers regarding high fructose corn syrup, corn oil etc. In any case all this is really about refusal to take responsibility for ones self and blame somebody or something else. Thanks for you time.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:30   #38
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

Yes, ethanol has almost nothing going for it because of how we make it in the states. In Brazil it is cleaner because it comes mostly from leftovers of their massive sugar cane industry. Getting ethanol from corn is not smart, it only benefits well funded corn growers in the US. And ridiculously, we never mandated that ethanol corn production use ethanol to produce it.

I read the 'wind generators create heat' article too. Wind is still one of our best ways to reduce future warming. The article pointed out 'local warming' only surrounding the wind generators. And clearly stated wind was better for cooling than coal and oil.

If you have to lie in a comment to sway your voting friends, should you instead rethink your position? #TruthisPatriotic.
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Old 10-10-2018, 13:20   #39
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

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Yes, ethanol has almost nothing going for it because of how we make it in the states. In Brazil it is cleaner because it comes mostly from leftovers of their massive sugar cane industry. Getting ethanol from corn is not smart, it only benefits well funded corn growers in the US. And ridiculously, we never mandated that ethanol corn production use ethanol to produce it.
This makes absolutely no sense, The alcohol made from corn and used in ethanol is the same alcohol shipped to manufactures, distillers, brewers, and wineries around the world. As far as mandating use of ethanol to produce ethanol makes no sense what so ever, Is use of wind power mandated for production of wind generators? What about solar? “Only benefits corn growers”, you really have no idea what you are talking about. The positive effects flow through small, medium and large companies provide good jobs for 10s of thousands of local people that when combined pay a massive amount of taxes and support schools communities,state and federal governments. Ethanol also replaced the use of the gasoline additive MTBE that is know to pollute water and cause cancer. You really should reconsider your sources of information.
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Old 10-10-2018, 13:48   #40
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

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The alcohol made from corn and used in ethanol is the same alcohol shipped to manufactures, distillers, brewers, and wineries around the world.
Huh? Do you think a winery buys corn based ethanol alcohol to put in their wine

The supposed reason for a law mandating ethanol was to help the environment not to create job or to make a few rich farmers richer. It turns the law we got hurts the environment.

But the solar industry produces many more jobs than the ethanol industry. Maybe the farmers should install solar panels over their fields and create jobs while also helping the environment.
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Old 10-10-2018, 13:53   #41
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

OK. Corn ethanol in the US is dirtier than gas alone. Every modern study confirms this. Having tax payers subsidize corn ethanol is not ok if there is no health benefit.
MTBE was banned in CA 15 years ago. It had nothing to do with ethanol.
Our farmers (bigag) profiting from making people sick is hard to watch.
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Old 10-10-2018, 13:54   #42
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

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Huh? Do you think a winery buys corn based ethanol alcohol to put in their wine

The supposed reason for a law mandating ethanol was to help the environment not to create job or to make a few rich farmers richer. It turns the law we got hurts the environment.

But the solar industry produces many more jobs than the ethanol industry. Maybe the farmers should install solar panels over their fields and create jobs while also helping the environment.
You missed the primary benefit it is to buy votes in Iowa and deflect voters from looking at the effects of tariffs.
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Old 10-10-2018, 14:00   #43
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

Interesting thing about Iowa. Like Texas, farmers there consider their giant wind generators in their fields as producing another crop. The product of course is clean electricity. Those farmers are helping US. It's so good to see.
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Old 10-10-2018, 14:27   #44
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

There's no more "gasoline" sold in NYC, it is all "gasahol". (Except perhaps aviation fuel, and I don't think LFK or LGA is going to let you bring jerry cans.)

https://www.pure-gas.org

Will show you maps and list stations that do sell it. In some states it is totally banned and you are SOL.

If you believe what is said on YouTube, in theory you can add about a quart of water to a gallon of gasahol and it will actually pull ALL the alcohol out of solution, allowing you to decant the pure gasoline.
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Old 10-10-2018, 14:29   #45
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Re: Ethanol in fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainwoody View Post
Yes, ethanol has almost nothing going for it because of how we make it in the states. In Brazil it is cleaner because it comes mostly from leftovers of their massive sugar cane industry. Getting ethanol from corn is not smart, it only benefits well funded corn growers in the US. And ridiculously, we never mandated that ethanol corn production use ethanol to produce it.

I read the 'wind generators create heat' article too. Wind is still one of our best ways to reduce future warming. The article pointed out 'local warming' only surrounding the wind generators. And clearly stated wind was better for cooling than coal and oil.

If you have to lie in a comment to sway your voting friends, should you instead rethink your position? #TruthisPatriotic.

The total life cycle of a wind generator consumes more energy than is harvested. You must include mining, smelting etc and re-manufacture, maintenance. They are a net carbon emitter increaser. The mean time to failure is 6-18 months, usually the speed increaser gearbox. Without subsidies and mandates they would not exist. The usually advertised life span of 30 years ignores the probable failures, down time and rebuilds. The cost of a rebuild exceedes the value of power harvested between failures.

I know this because I and my previous employer built the rebuild facilities for the gearboxes all around the world. We have not built a facility since world governments stopped funding them. The US is one of the last to pull the plug although there is still the mandate issue. Corn lobby is very powerful.

On the mandates, California plans to become zero carbon by buying power from over state lines. This means more conventional generation in Nevada. This is disegenuously stupid.

Ethanol production likewise is a net carbon increaser. Start with the fertilizer-origin is petroleum. Transport fertilizer from S America on oil burner ships, distribute all over the US. Grow, harvest, transport. Process at the still, more energy in to run the still, etc. It would be more efficient to burn the corn in a coal plant and skip the ethanol step. Your car gets better mileage on straight fuel. Now add in the cost to corn dependent people around the world for increased cost of food. It’s stupid to burn your food in a car.

Sorry for the bubble-bursting. The truth, it burns.
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