Alternator for new Volvo engine?

[svbravo]

Originally Posted by DougR

The alternator which is shown in the photos from boom23 is the Mastervolt 110/24 unit which is the same alternator which the mounting kit for the D2-75 accepts. (His engine is the D3, but the concept is the same)

For the D2-75 engine the mounting kit is part #21281679, the parts bulletin which describes it is #P-32-1-3, and the mounting instructions are publication # 7746145. Your dealer can see all of this in his D2-75 parts breakdown. This kit contains the reinforced engine mount bracket, alternator pulley, serpentine belt, belt adjuster, bolts, nuts, spacers,etc. The kit does not contain the alternator.


If you run a strictly 12v vessel I would suggest the following:
- source the " extra alternator bracket" kit which allows you to move the original, standard alternator to the location above the injection pump. There is also a longer harness kit which allows this alternator to connect to the original engine connections. Use this to charge the engine start battery because it will match up with the standard MDI engine electrical system, gauges and alarms.
- source the 21281679 "Mastervolt" kit and mount the alternator of choice in that kit. Then drive your house bank with the larger alternator.

Hope this helps..
DougR

Thanks for all of this great info, Doug, extremely helpful!

[boom23]

I stumbled on this website "Volvo Parts Europe", which has schematics and part numbers for Volvo Engines.

Scroll down to Electrical System. It shows factory available options, including the MasterVolt alternator.

[svbravo]

Originally Posted by boom23

I stumbled on this website "Volvo Parts Europe", which has schematics and part numbers for Volvo Engines.

Scroll down to Electrical System. It shows factory available options, including the MasterVolt alternator.

This is great, Boom23, thanks. I fell down this rabbit hole after following up on Doug's post as well.

Funny thing happened.....a few days ago, I told Boreal that I needed a continuous duty externally rated alternator to work with my lithium install. Nothing else will suffice. They asked their Volvo distributor, and he told them that Volvo would allow me to use an outboard 2nd alternator, but they limited it to 60 amps max!! without voiding warranty. And I'm a 12 volt boat!!! Said anything more would put too much torque on the crankshaft bearings. Bloody hell, the Volvo boats have the same engine, D2-75, and they put dual 24v 150 amp alternators on it!!! The schematic of their electrical install is right on Mastervolt's website!!! I was pretty p.o.'ed about it. I think their Volvo rep is being ridiculously conservative here. So I sent them the Volvo product bulletin on installing the 2nd position, moving the original alternator there, and installing the new kit, (up to 200 amp 24v, if I remember right!!!) in the original position. Hopefully I'll hear back soon w/ good news. Unfortunately my engine was just installed, so this will be done in situ instead at Volvo plant, but shouldn't be a big deal to add it. And I don't need huge capacity, will be fine w/ Mastervolt 120/12. Just a way to augment the wind/solar, and genset when "free" power is available. Cheers!

[Adrian Chen]

Originally Posted by svbravo

This is great, Doug. I just got back from the Volvo Penta dealer here on the Gold Coast. He knew about Volvo's 2nd alternator bracket, but said that to the best of his knowledge, same as my builder in France, that it could only be used with the standard internally regulated VP (Matsubishi) alternator. He recognized why this simply won't work for lithium batts, and said he would get back to me after checking with VP, as he agreed that they had to acknowledge that users need a way to charge lithiums.

After I just saw your comment, I went back to VP's website, and couldn't find any reference to the Mastervolt alternator and regulator, but Mastervolt has the info on it's site, even adds "VP" after the alternator model, indicating that it is meant to interface with VP's engines!!! So I'm now assuming it can be done, at least with Mastervolt's alternators. I'll see what my options are for regulators....whether I can stay with the Balmar MC-614 like I currently use and know how to program for the LiFePo4 use, or go with the Mastervolt regulator, which is probably fine as well.

If you have a Mastervolt alternator, I think you will need a negative field control regulator, from memory the Balmar is positive. We have had an Alpha Pro on this and our previous boat (Like Boom23) which worked well. It's designed to integrate with MV's systems so there may be better choices if another supplier is used.

[Oceansailor]

The Mastervolt alternator is a N type. But it is very easy to make it P type as both cables from the brushes exit the alternator. At least the do on my MV 12V/130A. Another option is Whisperpower. More or less the same product as Mastervolt. Not so strange as the founder of Whisperpower was the founder of Mastervolt.

[svbravo]

Originally Posted by Adrian Chen

If you have a Mastervolt alternator, I think you will need a negative field control regulator, from memory the Balmar is positive. We have had an Alpha Pro on this and our previous boat (Like Boom23) which worked well. It's designed to integrate with MV's systems so there may be better choices if another supplier is used.

Thanks, Adrian. The rest of the boat’s electrical gear will be Victron, so I’ll miss out on some of the “smart” capabilities of the Alpha Pro tied to the rest. But I think I’ll have the best chance of keeping Volvo happy w this Mastervolt alt/reg combo.

Cheers!

[svbravo]

Originally Posted by Oceansailor

The Mastervolt alternator is a N type. But it is very easy to make it P type as both cables from the brushes exit the alternator. At least the do on my MV 12V/130A. Another option is Whisperpower. More or less the same product as Mastervolt. Not so strange as the founder of Whisperpower was the founder of Mastervolt.

Thanks for this. I hadn’t heard of Whisperpower, good to have options!

[Adrian Chen]

Originally Posted by svbravo

Thanks, Adrian. The rest of the boat’s electrical gear will be Victron, so I’ll miss out on some of the “smart” capabilities of the Alpha Pro tied to the rest. But I think I’ll have the best chance of keeping Volvo happy w this Mastervolt alt/reg combo.

Cheers!

Same with Yanmar hence we have 2nd Mastervolt alt - the older type rather than the newer version you're getting - the USB interface lets me set/monitor all the various parameters when required. One day all electrical suppliers will talk to each other.........

[boatnerd]

I can understand volvo stance on voiding warranty. That engine has electronic control and low voltage sensors. An aftermarket alternator potentially could damage that equipment if not properly installed, especially with a lithium battery chemistry, whos cell voltages and high amperage characteristics differ from lead acid batteries.

[Adrian Chen]

Originally Posted by boatnerd

I can understand volvo stance on voiding warranty. That engine has electronic control and low voltage sensors. An aftermarket alternator potentially could damage that equipment if not properly installed, especially with a lithium battery chemistry, whos cell voltages and high amperage characteristics differ from lead acid batteries.

Interesting and way above my understanding! I just wanted a second alt for my 24v domestics while the original looks after the start battery, had no idea it had the potential to damage the engine electrics, thought it was about the loading on the main bearings. Learning all the time

[svbravo]

Originally Posted by boatnerd

I can understand volvo stance on voiding warranty. That engine has electronic control and low voltage sensors. An aftermarket alternator potentially could damage that equipment if not properly installed, especially with a lithium battery chemistry, whos cell voltages and high amperage characteristics differ from lead acid batteries.

Boatnerd
Please help me understand.....

Is the D2-75 engine "electronic controlled"? It's not one of the newer common rail engines.
Would a few tenths of a volt lower charging voltage output from the alternator into the batteries really damage the engine? And the higher current is going into the house batteries, not into the engine or it's start battery.
Why does Volvo even offer the mounting kit for the large Mastervolt alternator, if it will damage it's engines, either electrically or mechanically, thus voiding the warranty?
Also, the reason that Volvo gave my boat's manufacturer (Boreal) for the larger alternator voiding the warranty was that it was due to side torque if using over 60 amps, not an electrical issue? They would allow a secondary of 60 amps max, but that would have the same voltage as a larger alternator.
And finally, the Volvo Race boats, using the same D2-75 engine, are using dual alternators, 24V / 150A alternators. How is this ok by Volvo? Talk about side torque!!! And massive amounts of current (again, into the lithium batteries)

Not saying you're incorrect, just trying to figure this out before writing a letter to Volvo.

If Volvo were prohibiting lithium batteries due to the possibility of burning out the stock alternator, I'd get that. Lithiums are very tough on alternators if they're not rated for continuous duty. But they don't even mention lithium batteries in their warranty. At least not that I could find.

I'm confused.....Thanks for any light you can shed on it for me!

[boom23]

It is hard for me to believe that there's no second alternator, or higher output alternator option for your engine without voiding the warranty. A second alternator bracket is available from Volvo (from the parts website). No one has done this with Boreal boats before? Very strange... Something feels wrong here. I would do more digging,/questioning now that you have more information.

Engine electronics are designed to work in very extreme conditions.

Race boats don't worry about warranty much. The goal is to survive/win a race. In addition, Volvo might be using them for testing/data.

Good luck!

[svbravo]

Originally Posted by boom23

It is hard for me to believe that there's no second alternator, or higher output alternator option for your engine without voiding the warranty. A second alternator bracket is available from Volvo (from the parts website). No one has done this with Boreal boats before? Very strange... Something feels wrong here. I would do more digging,/questioning now that you have more information.

Engine electronics are designed to work in very extreme conditions.

Race boats don't worry about warranty much. The goal is to survive/win a race. In addition, Volvo might be using them for testing/data.

Good luck!

I'm with you, very strange. Hopefully we get some answers this week!

And RE: the Volvo boats.....I agree, they don't care about warranties. And they have an army of techs from every manufacturer waiting at each race village when they pull into ports swarming over the boats. But with the propulsion engines being their primary source of power, which powers their canting keel and water ballast pumps, in addition to their nav and comm electronics, failure of the Volvo engine is not an option! So, like you, I believe that Volvo will stand behind strapping a 2nd alternator to their engines.....I just need to get past their lawyers in the warranty department!!!

[hellosailor]

Do not assume that any "racing" part is durable, or recommended for general use. The reason is very simple: Racing parts are built for specific races.

Engines built for the Indy500 races literally got 10x more power out of each cubic inch, than "the same" mass market engines. The difference is that literally, a mass market engine may be designed to run for 200,000 miles, but the Indy car engines? Were designed to last the 500 miles of the race, plus 100 miles of prep and practice, plus 100 more miles "just in case". The entire engine was pulled and replaced after less than 700 miles!

Or as they say in NASCAR, "If you don't break anything, you ain't racing." Same thing on the Volvo-sponsored ocean races. They are built to endure the most probable (but not all possible) conditions on the race, and they are built to endure that FOR ONE RACE, not necessarily forever. Engines, alternators, anything that can have weight reduced, will have weight reduced. If that means bolting on a second alternator to get more amps out of each gallon of fuel used, and the trade-off is that the engine main bearings will be pulled sideways and worn out after 2500 hours of use?
No one cares, because that's going to help win the race, and engines are expendable.

These days, just getting a straight answer from the source (Volvo) will be a good trick. No one lets their engineers near the public telephones any more, the customer might turn around and sue them.

[svbravo]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

These days, just getting a straight answer from the source (Volvo) will be a good trick. No one lets their engineers near the public telephones any more, the customer might turn around and sue them.

Agree with the basic premise, though given the number of Volvo owners that I know with a 2nd alternator mounted to their engines, it's hard for me to believe that they're all voiding their warranties. And none, to my knowledge, are using 60A or less for these secondary alts.

Since the stock alternator will not work with lithium batts, this would basically say that Volvo engines don't work with lithiums, and I'm guessing Volvo won't want this as their new tag line.

We'll see where it goes, though I certainly don't expect to speak with a Volvo design engineer....