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Old 27-03-2015, 08:47   #3046
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The instructions for construction of the centerboard trunk directs builders to build up the bearing edge of the trunk where the centerboard presses against it. This reduces the bottom opening a small amount, which would make removing mine out the bottom an impossibility. Fortunately, at least for the forty, the clearance from the aft end of the mast step and the aft upper end of the CB trunk has sufficient clearance to make the board exit. Because I am lifting the board out with the control line, the CB tends to cock a little, requiring some "wiggling" of the top of the board to get it to come out. I use my halyard for this operation and it works flawlessly. Unfortunately, the insertion of the axle pin always requires a bit of time to locate it through the axle hole in the board. I haven't installed my new CB yet, but I plan on painting a series of target rings around the axle so I can sight the hole better through the axle gland. It's not a big thing though.
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Old 27-03-2015, 17:38   #3047
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Okay, here's a start of pics: First shows one of the turning stanchions and how I install them. I cut a reinforced neoprene gasket and punch the bolt holes (acts as a mini shock absorber and keeps the stanchion base from fracturing the glass/epoxy beneath). Then I apply about an inch-long piece of butyl tape (thanks, Mainesail). Notice the countersunk and epoxied holes for the sealant to do its job.

In this pic you can see how the pinrail and the dacron/dyneema lashing work on securing the bownets.

Second is a closeup of the gasket and sealant.

More to come. I just finished getting the aft pulpit (pushpit for you limeys) secured, the bow pulpit is installed permanently, and I'm almost done with installing all the stanchions.
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Old 27-03-2015, 17:44   #3048
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Old 30-03-2015, 10:28   #3049
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

SEARUNNER 34 CENTERBOARD REMOVAL and TIPS:

Roy is correct that it is removed through the top. The procedure make take all day, and is as follows:

First... haul out, or if you feel VERY lucky, beach the boat. Do not try to do this in the water! Remove the dodger and bimini top if you have one...

Then, slack the steering cables and remove the hopefully "quick remove" pedestal.

Next... slack all the mast's wires, and completely slack or remove the bottom of the swept back lower wires. (Leaving the backstay just tight enough to hold up the mast and no more). The top of the mast will stay stationary but the base must be able to be moved forward.

Now, remove your CB trunk top caps if you have them, (as I do), and remove the lag screws or bolts that hold your mast base's support plank in place.

With the base plank now free to move, using a small car scissor jack or the like against the sub cockpit riser frame, carefully push the mast base forward to the front cabin companionway bulkhead. You will need to use a 2X4 extender against the now loose mast base plank.

With the mast base and pedestal out of the way, you are ready for the centerboard removal. You will be using the very strong 3/8" nylon "down line" to lift the board. Just above the top of the trunk make a loop in the control line using a bowline. At this point you CAN use your main halyard, OR... my preference, make a loop with another line on the boom itself for an upper lifting point, just above the other line but a bit further aft. Between these two lines rig up a "comealong" hoist, and tighten it slowly to lift the board 1/2" or so.

Next go below and remove your 5/8" silicon bronze axle pin. It should be held in there loosely by two plastic through hull fittings with their heads facing each other, so you just remove one of the threaded stem's caps. Be careful NOT to spin the through hull fitting!

With it all loose, start hoisting the centerboard out. It "may" be very tight at the top of the trunk if you have the split vinyl hose cushion installed at the top of the board, as I do. If so... just wiggle and slide the board back and forth as needed, to coerce it out.

Eventually it will be completely dangling at a swept back angle. Then you and another VERY strong person muscle it out. (25 years ago, my wife and I used to carry ours out of the shop, daily.) OR... if you are in a boatyard, be smart get them to use their small mast crane to help out. My guess is that it weighs 300#s and it is worth $100.00 not to injure your back.


WHY NOT REMOVE THE CENTERBOARD THROUGH THE BOTTOM?

Many reasons... First, you would have to hoist or block the boat WAY up in the air, OR dig a VERY deep hole under the boat. I've done both, and it is a pain!

As Roy pointed out, there should be a thick build up of glass, (like > 1/8" or so in my case), at the lower centerboard trunk slot. The top of the board is square and likely to be thicker than the foil part, so would possibly jamb for this reason.

IF the top has the split vinyl hose as was advised in the plans, it would not go past the heads of the through hull fittings (unless they are flush mounted), and would DEFINITELY jamb when encountering the lower trunk's thick glass build up.

Also... if you have the full or partial rubber fairing flap on the bottom of the trunk, (as was in the plans), along with a slot narrowing fiberglass worm shoe like we do, getting it out through the bottom is simply impossible. (We DID make our CB fit very snugly, for a totally cushioned "no clunk" installation).

I have seen the professional guys in boatyards really butcher up a Searunner in their attempts to get it out through the bottom. I don't suggest it.
Also... IF it was improperly built or damaged, so has gotten wet & swollen up, it is easier to repair the damage necessary to get it out from above.

We glassed our centerboard almost 1/8" thick all over, except the foil's perimeter/edges, which got about 3/8" of glass build up in "impact areas". 25,000 miles later... with several impacts since then, the damage has always been superficial.

Centerboards are what give our Searunners their stellar windward ability and seakindly motion. When you get yours out, IF it is not already done this way, I suggest that you glass the board as well as the trunk's lower slot to make it REALLY tough, (Possibly even the entire trunk). Otherwise, you loose the wonderful Searunner centerboard advantage of being able to touch bottom without serious damage, and might as well have a much more vulnerable daggerboard.

ONE MORE POINT... When you haul out, with the board raised, hold up the lower end of the board with a webbing lasso or the like, until you are blocked up. It is asking too much to expect the boards "up line" if you have one, to hold up this kind of weight. On the 34, the board has inverse mechanical advantage trying to pull the trunk's forward block off of its mounting. The gentle tug required to get the board to float up is almost "0" load. When you lift the boat out of the water, however, this load becomes considerably more, like 10X more!
ALSO... When sailing with the board down, always use a "fuse" line on the centerboard's 3/8" down line. We tie a piece of 1/8" parachute cord onto the down line with a rolling hitch, once the board is down. Then we cam cleat this "fuse line" ONLY, with the larger down line left free. The use of a fuse line prevents damage in an accidental grounding.

Best of luck with it,
Mark
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Old 30-03-2015, 13:49   #3050
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Wow Roy...

In looking back after months of my being "off line" with CF, I am impressed. You have really been busy and done such nice work.

I agree with you about your bow net's size. Up there, "less is more".

Vinyl Dip:
The nice folks at Sunrise can fix you up with cans of their black vinyl dip when you need it. After decades of trying MANY sources of this stuff, I found that all of it gets brittle after 5 or 10 years, EXCEPT theirs.

Our wing vent mesh nets, made by them, are still pristine after 18 years of hard use, because every few years we remove them and triple coat them, as well as the grommets and new lashings, again, using their black vinyl dip. Other than chafe, which we all need to minimize... it is only the UVs that wears this stuff out. They were amazed at our success with the nets, and said it is NOT typical.

I use this dip on all lashings as well as my rope to chain splices too, which I will be doing one of tomorrow. I get the splice really tight, then use one coat on the splice and three at the last 1.5". It keeps all sand and debris out of the splice as well as lay of the rope on the 8" taper. It also stays flexible! This process makes it where the rope to chain splice is not the deal breaker when it comes time to change it all out. The chain will rust out first in my experience.

Do try to connect with my friend Rann Millar if you can. He is a really nice guy, and I am sure it is with a heavy heart that he has decided to pass his project on to a younger man living closer to the boat.

Keep up the good work, and may you get out there sooner rather than later.
M.
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Old 30-03-2015, 14:43   #3051
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Ross, sorry to hear that painting time is approaching. I seem to remember that you have LP paint. If so, after a really good solvent wash, you can use a rag to smear a slurry of black "guide coat" on the masked off areas to be painted, and then sand just the surface until the black disappears. (Guide coat is a qt of acetone with spoonful of black pigment added, constantly stirred). It makes it easy to know where you have and have not sanded, even on your now mostly flat paint.

Once it becomes flat with age btw, the big deal is to solvent wash it well. The paint does stick to itself once the shine is gone, from age or with newer boats, from sanding it flat.

Not that you don't have to sand it all lightly with 320 grit anyway, just that on an old paint job, it is easier to do so. Hard to get to areas like fillets or hatch combings, you can scuff flat with a Scotch Brite.

I recently (2 years ago) did my underwings using roller tip rather than spray, and while not as good, it was certainly goodenuff... Using gray primer under the white topcoat will likely give you 12 years or so rather than 8 or 9 between paint jobs. (Every 20 years under the wings)... It keeps the sun from shining through, shrinking the epoxy surface underneath. This epoxy shrinkage can cause early paint failure.

Wharrams are all over I know, and the the best at sitting on the bottom in areas with high tides. (My first cruising boat was a Wharram). They are a cult classic for sure, and seaworthy, but REALLY wet, and compared to Searunners, no where near as seakindly or as good a performer to windward. Consider yourself fortunate.

Mark
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Old 30-03-2015, 15:48   #3052
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

BOAT SIZES, The SEARUNNER CONSTRUCTION MANUAL, and HOW MUCH STUFF...

The SR 34 and 37 are almost the same size boat, and in fact, the payload of the 37 is just 200 lbs more than the 34. Both boats are WAY larger than the 25 or 31'er, and the 34 as well as 37s are about HALF of the size of Roy's SR40, really. The 40 is a HUGE boat by comparison! So, even though Roy and I both have many decades of experience building, repairing, and equipping these boats, Roy can get away with a LOT more "stuff" on his boat than I can. Otherwise it is easy to eat up one's payload. I have done it on previous boats, but not our current one!

The Searunner Construction Manual is a wonderful old book with fantastic cartoons and good woodworking tips. It is, however, obsolete in many ways, like modern materials and electronics. I used it (the 31'er isometric schematic), as a guide for my lifeline/bow & stern railings, etc when I was building my SeaClipper 28, 30+ years ago. Then I added several solar panels and a wind generator. Other than this, I was VERY lightly loaded. More than anything, that "over restraint lifeline system" with diagonal lifeline wires and a brace on every stantion, ate up most of my payload. When I met my now wife in Key West 25 years ago, I had to start removing stuff so we could go cruising. A friend came aboard once right before we were heading to the Bahamas, and the self bailing cockpit started self flooding! That's how I knew I had reached my limit. It would still sail @ 19 knots, and being open wing it didn't pound, but she was just too heavy. That was several hundred pounds of stantions, unnecessary braces, and too many unnecessary lifeline wires.

Years later on our SR 34 Delphys, I opted to skip the stantion "braces" and for n aft diagional wires, like I had seen in the Construction Manual drawing. We just have to keep these boats as light as possible. Back in the day... we didn't add hundreds of pounds of OTHER stuff as well.
I also made as much of the boat as possible out of light weight composites to make up for the added accouterments below, and while I have an inverter, watermaker, radar, SSB, refrigeration, etc... they are all ultra small and very efficient. I still prefer to use a garden sprayer shower for example, we have NO ceramic plates in the galley, and I carry "only" the wrenches that have a mating nut somewhere on the boat. We even tear the redundant pages in other languages out of our reference books!!!
We carry what we need, but nothing that we don't! Many times I re-built things in favor of a lighter weight version. For more on this philosophy:
http://outrigmedia.com/outrig/multih...-mark-johnson/
(I do not btw, receive any proceeds for this audio product at all).

I did not make the centerboard too light, however, as it needs plenty of weight to get it down, needs to be incredibly stiff & strong, and more than anything, it needs to be impact resistant, without requiring a haulout every time. I think Roy's lighter weight centerboard takes these strength needs into account, and it has hard beefed up impact surfaces built in.

So I suggest that those of us with smaller boats than the Searunner 40'er, really keep an eye on the simplicity and weight. It is not about speed, it is about pounding the wings out in a storm, or no longer being able to fight our way off of a lee shore, as Searunners should all be so good at.

One legitimate criticism of Searunners is their ability to carry a payload. Fatter less weatherly hulls, like those on a Cross, are better at that. Searunners, on the other hand, are meant to be the backpackers of the sea.

For those that envision only a sailing life spent close to shore on vacations and weekends, this is not much of a concern, but for true blue water cruising...

M.
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Old 30-03-2015, 17:36   #3053
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Two more issues that might do some folks a bit of good...

BEDDING HARDWARE:
Mounting all of those hundreds of bits and pieces to our boats obviously requires caulk under the base plate of the hardware to keep sea water out of the interface, (it prevents corrosion), and to keep water out of the hull's bolt hole = out of the boat.

Don't forget to caulk UNDER THE HEAD of the machine screw as well! It is not necessary here in order to keep water out of the hull's bolt hole, but to prevent crevice corrosion under the heads of fastenings like stantion or bow/stern rail bolts.

In a major re-fit in '04, I was removing stantion bases in preparation for painting. I was shocked when with very little force the heads of 4 of the the 1/4-20 hex head machine screws just broke off in my hand. Although I have never done it since, I had caulked up the bolt's legs and under the stantion bases, but NOT under the heads as well. Big mistake...

This is a salty place, and unless you have a supply of 316 ss fastenings, those stantion/rail bases are probably more noble than the fastenings. KEEP THE SALT OUT!



The other issue... And forgive me for saying it, again,
SYNTHETIC RIGGING:

I currently have & really like DUX synthetic rigging on my running back stays, and am considering using it when replacing my lifeline wires, but it is NOT a good candidate for a Searunner's standing rigging. Here's why: INCOMPATIBLE COEFFICIENT OF EXPANSION.

Searunners more than many other designs, have tall skinny mast with a lot of small wires that all must be tuned just right "in concert", to keep the mast in column, EVEN when pushing hard to windward in high winds. Sailing as a sloop, the uppers need to be tighter than the lowers for example, to allow it to lean a bit, but not get into an "S" curve.

This is what I learned about my synthetic running backs... If at 95 degrees F I'd tightened them to being bar tight, like playing a banjo string tight, TWANG... Then at 75 degrees they were just barely snug but not tight at all. They were useless "at this temperature" to hold up my mast. If they had NOT been for my running backstays that I adjust every time I use, (with my "quick adjust" turnbuckles), this would have been a deal breaker.

It gets worse... The same stays that had been bar tight at 95 degrees, will hang totally loose at 50 degrees F! I mean floppy loose, like 7" of side to side with the pressure from one finger, or 10" if I push just a bit. This is measured at the top of the lifelines. The stay's side to side slack measured half way up, might be 3' or so... REALLY LOOSE!

WHY???
Because the mast's extrusion expands and contracts with temperature similarly to my ss wires, (perhaps 1/2" or more), so with wire, you hardly notice the difference with temperature. I have only adjusted my ss "wire" rigging a couple of times in its 19 years of use. Yes, they are due for replacement.

With synthetic rigging, it does not expand or contract with the mast nearly as much, so when the mast shrinks, the synthetic does not, so gets exponentially looser. What's worse, is that being a longer distance, the uppers would get looser MORE than the intermediates or lowers do. This is the polar opposite of what you want, in order to keep a mast such as ours in column!

There are other issues like windage, chafe, creep, and ultimate lifespan, all of which are reasonable trade offs for the benefit of a "somewhat" lighter rig. A POORLY STAYED MAST, NOT ALWAYS KEPT IN COLUMN, IS NOT.

How Much Weight Saving?
Remember regarding weight aloft, that on a "cruising" mast covered with electronics & hardware, that the ss standing rigging is less than 5% or at most 10% of that total rig's weight. Cutting the weight of the wire "alone" by 5X is still a very small issue, compared to the down side if used in our standing rig application.

IMO the stuff is great for many other applications like mine, "runners". The lighter weight makes my runners easier to rig and stow, during their transitions. They also flop around far less, and here, the changes in tune are not an issue. I adjust as needed.

Synthetic standing rigging might also be the way to go with short stout triangularly rigged masts (like my SC28 had), trailerable day sailors, carbon fiber masts, (with less expansion/contraction than aluminum masts), loosely rigged wing or rotating mast with ss wire diamond stays to keep them straight, OR for people who "only" sail in 75 to 85 degree weather, like my friend Dale Dagger in the tropics. There are many appropriate applications for synthetic rigging, but on Searunners... (intended for multi season blue water cruising, in a varied latitude), I think you would end up hating your choice.

Got to go back to work. Hope I did some good guys...
Mark
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Old 31-03-2015, 01:15   #3054
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Excellent posting Mark.
Great to have you back. You make this forum so much better.
I shall be in touch when i start the big job of repainting the decks.

I went for a sail today in a Nicol. It was impressive very quick in 18 knots of wind we where doing 10 knots These guys are ex searunner kids. they still love the searunner but picked up something they could afford. A very fast 40 ft Nicol. I was impressed. They want to go offshore to Fiji but i dont know if its ideal to do that.

Hope all is well there Mark i know you have been recovering from an accident.
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Old 31-03-2015, 09:23   #3055
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Sounds like you got a ride on Drumbeat, Rossad , with the new owners. Many Nicols have done world and round the world voyages. Like all good designs success comes down to individual preparation, outfitting, construction and seamanship.
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Old 31-03-2015, 19:22   #3056
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks for the kind words Ross, I appreciate it.
Just let me know if I can help when you get ready to paint...

I don't know the boat design well and we all love our Searunners best, but there are a lot of other great trimarans out there too... Now build quality and condition, that's another question.
M.

PS... I spent the winter building a workshop, so now I have a place for all that boat gear and my home made kayak!
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Old 01-04-2015, 19:11   #3057
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, thank you for saving me from some terrible mistakes with my standing rigging. I am going to be getting the lifelines installed after the balance of the deck gear gets done. I will be using synthetic for the upper and lower lifelines, gates and some other stuff. I'm trying to decide now if I should just purchase a 600 foot spool of 1/4" for these and some other projects. I want to use it also for my anchor rode for the RIB, since it takes up so little space, is chafe resistant. I figure that the mass of the dink and motor (and all the contained stuff) is low enough that the lack of stretch isn't going to be a significant issue when anchoring while diving. The catenary should be adequate to allow for minor tidal surge and waves. I don't ever plan on leaving the RIB in the water for any significant time, now that I've got the launch/retrieval system down.

Thanks, also, for the tip on the vinyl coating. I can see a number of places that it can be useful. Right now I'm repainting the R2D2 remote windlass unit, and some other parts that fit onto the bow pedestal. You will understand my name for this thing when you see it, but it has "eyes" which are the up/down buttons, a "nose" that contains the bright red LED lamp telling me the windlass motor is powered up (and which illuminates the windlass and chain at night), a "mole" on its cheek that is the connector plug for the remote handheld windlass control and chain counter. I don't like windlass foot controls because I can step on one when things are bouncy, and standing next to the chain can be a dicey position. My R2D2 allows me to have all controls on the pulpit, where I can have a firm hold and control everything. There are additional up/down switches (rocker switches) with similar red LEDs in the various lockers that the chain passes through so I can pull the chain aft, or simply flake it down in place. The remote hand unit allows me to stand at the bow with the water hose and blast the mud (or cut the kelp) before it comes aboard. There is an additional red LED above the bow roller so that I can see everything involved, and to stay clear of the chain. Lastly, I have a 55 watt deck light clamped under the pulpit "hat" so I can have plenty of light to clear problems. Kelp is a big issue in our local waters, so being able to see what to cut off is a big deal. I'll send the pics once I get the stuff painted and mounted. All my pulpit electrical wiring is encased in exterior grade flexible electrical conduit. These are being replaced after many years. They bubble on the surface from UV. Perhaps I can coat these in the future with the vinyl dip. Do you know if it comes in any color besides black? So many details.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:09   #3058
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Not related to anything important, but, I noted that this thread has 415,000+ views. I don't think any other thread comes close. Does that tell you something about the world of Searunners?
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:00   #3059
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Joke thread = 643,013
LiFePO4 battery thread = 437,562

Being number three in this company isn't so bad.
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Old 03-04-2015, 13:41   #3060
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

argh, Mark, that's interesting and disappointing news about synthetic rigging. I'm living in SF while the TIE Fighter is stored in the same yard as Dale/Coraz˛n in San Carlos, but planning to return to cruising at some point in the next year or two, and I know that my standing rigging is probably fifteen years old at this point... will likely have to replace it all, and also my chainplates, if I have any intention of doing anything but coastal Sea of Cortez cruising. I had hoped to go synthetic to save weight and to make carrying repair materials easier.

I miss my boat.
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