Lagoon 450F Operations in high winds

[Captain Mike C]

A question for Lagoon 450 owners & Captains:
I am operating a Lagoon 450F on a day that is expecting winds in the 20 to 26 kts range & thunder storms. My question is with the high freeboard, how bad can I expect to be pushed around at the crowded dock going in and out of the slip?

[mark_morwood]

Compared to what?

I haven't driven a 450F, but we recently chartered a Bali 4.6 (flybridge) and had some highish wind days. It moved around with the wind more than the Catana 48 I was used to driving, but even with the flybridge it wasn't hard to manage in 20 knots if you used enough power.

When we came back to the marina with it blowing 30 knots I got the staff to drive it in as it was pretty tight marina and I had no problem letting someone else take the risk, but with generous use of power the skipper had no problem managing it. So you can manage biggish flybridge catamarans in reasonable winds, but experience with the particular boat matters.

I don't know your specific experience, but if you haven't driven a biggish cat in those conditions in close quarters before, I would recommend caution. Things can quickly get out of hand with 20 knots on the beam. If it's just the addition of the flybridge that you are asking about, I didn't find it made a fundamental difference, just more windage to manage, using the same techniques I had used before.

[Captain Mike C]

Thank you. Appreciate the info.

[Tin Tin]

Higher winds blowing on to a hard non floating dock can be a bit tricky if you become stationery, fenders need to be strung horizontal preferably linked, also to avoid hull window contact. We used to string 7 fenders from bow to mid cleat and come in at an angle where this section touched dock/post first, get a line on the dock and then use engines to pull back, wind will do the rest. We did this during a storm gusting 50 knots on to the dock T head behind a super yacht, no scratches, but was a touch anxious. We had the twin 54Hp Yanmars so pretty grunty.

[Captain Mike C]

Thank you. Much appreciated.

[HUFFnPUFF]

When I dock in high winds in my bali, I go in about a 70* angle and get the bow line secured. That way I can put my inside engine in reverse to control how gast my stern approaches the dock. By keeping the pressure on the bow line you will also keep the bow from hitting the dock. There may be a better way of doing it, but this works well for us.

[Captain Mike C]

Thank you.

[yeloya]

I manoeuvred quite a bid with my L450. Yes, the windage is high but at same time the boat is pretty heavy which is not good for sailing but she doesn't give much leeway when manoeuvring on side winds for the same reason. Mine has 2X50 HP engines so never had a problem. She also have nice view of 4 corners from the flybridge . Obviously at 35-40 kts of wind every boat will have problems but this is not specific to L 450.

Cheers

Yeloya

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by HUFFnPUFF

When I dock in high winds in my bali, I go in about a 70* angle and get the bow line secured. That way I can put my inside engine in reverse to control how gast my stern approaches the dock. By keeping the pressure on the bow line you will also keep the bow from hitting the dock. There may be a better way of doing it, but this works well for us.

I do something similar, but use forward on the inside engine and reverse on the outside engine - this means you are rotating the boat off the bow line, not also trying to pull it astern.The force on the bow line will be straight off the dock, rather than along the dock. Makes for an easier recovery if anything goes wrong with the dock cleat and just feels a bit more in control.

This is actually my standard docking approach, but with much less approach angle if there isn't wind blowing off the dock. It also makes it easy for the crew, they secure the bow cleat, then calmly walk back down the boat to tie up the stern cleat as you bring it in from the helm.

[HUFFnPUFF]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

I do something similar, but use forward on the inside engine and reverse on the outside engine - this means you are rotating the boat off the bow line, not also trying to pull it astern.The force on the bow line will be straight off the dock, rather than along the dock. Makes for an easier recovery if anything goes wrong with the dock cleat and just feels a bit more in control.

This is actually my standard docking approach, but with much less approach angle if there isn't wind blowing off the dock. It also makes it easy for the crew, they secure the bow cleat, then calmly walk back down the boat to tie up the stern cleat as you bring it in from the helm.

How are you keeping the wind from slamming you into the dock. If I don't keep tension on the bow line and use the reverse on the inside, my boat wants to accelerate into the dock.

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by HUFFnPUFF

How are you keeping the wind from slamming you into the dock. If I don't keep tension on the bow line and use the reverse on the inside, my boat wants to accelerate into the dock.

I was assuming the wind was blowing you off the dock or not significant. A different story for strong wind onto the dock. I can't recall having the wind so strong onto the dock that I couldn't just line the boat up along side and have the wind lay me onto the dock. Probably just faulty memory or luck of the draw. But if it happens, I'll try your method. Thx.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by HUFFnPUFF

How are you keeping the wind from slamming you into the dock. If I don't keep tension on the bow line and use the reverse on the inside, my boat wants to accelerate into the dock.

Surely if you stern on the inside engine with only a bow line it will pull your bow into the dock eventually? Also it will not bring you closer to the dock unless you stern the outside engine. I think it may even pull you away from the dock. If you do as Mark suggests, stern with the outside and forward with the inside you rotate in nice and square to the dock. Its about balancing the fwd and stern power so you stay in one place and not move ahead. It is also very NB to have your rudders facing the right direction as it assists your rotation. If you started with a very long bow line you may need to reverse the process mid way to get the bow closer and take in some slack on the bow line, then start again.

[singlespeed]

Gusts definitely make it harder if you have the high free board of this particular cat. The most important thing is don't hesitate to back out if you are not lined up perfectly when the bows enter the slip. Applying copious power to straighten the boat out when any part of the boat is still moving into the slip is a recipe for disaster. If any are in your area, watch a professional sport fisherman (very high windage and no hint of a keel) reverse into a slip on a lively crosswind day. You will see them pull out as many times as necessary to minimize any damage to their vessel and docks.

[pbmaise]

To me, a small cat with two engines should be a breeze to dock in any windage compared to a much larger trimaran with only one engine. But I should be able to convey a few things I learned that may apply.

Yes, there comes a point for every high windage vessel that it is safer to wait. In the areas I sailed, the winds dropped at night. If the same is true in your area, timing your arrival after sunset can make things a lot safer.

I also learned I could not depend on a marina vessel to keep my vessel to overcome windage and act as a bow thruster. Frequently, the engines on their vessel were far too small.

The number one tacit I learned to employ involved a kayak and a strong floating rope about 70 meters. I could deploy a crew member to take the line to shore to give me a secure point. That floating rope allowed me to safely dock in high windage situations between superyachts. Further, I had no qualms about sending my crew onto a yacht to get a line attached to their vessel so I could dock safely. I certainly wouldn't mind having another crewmember aboard my vessel to make sure their vessel safely made it in instead of ramming into mine.

Of course I never docked next to a Russian oligarch. Well at least I don't think so.

[Icarus]

Remind me not to moore my superyacht next to you in high winds.