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Old 22-12-2014, 10:52   #31
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Stupid question as I'm not a Cat sailor, just barely a sailor actually.

I've often wondered why an overload device isn't fitted to the main sheet?
Yes it could cause problems once you have lost control of the boom, and the boom could even be fatal, but it would be like an air bag in your car, that is the accidents happening, all your trying to do is lessen the blow. It should prevent capsize, extremely rare though as they are.
The big solo racing ones have devices like that but they not always work on time to prevent capsizes. I guess they are not used on cruising cats because that would be expensive and complicated. Capsizes on cruising cats are very rare and more frequent on performance cats than in heavier condo cats.
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Old 22-12-2014, 11:02   #32
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

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Here's a mono hull with positive buoyancy that is inverted and has a bunch of holes. Very sad. RIP to all sailors lost at sea.
Yes, but positive buoyancy on a monohull without the ballast does not count

Nobody wants to have that kind of buoyancy on a monohull.

I was really impressed with the buoyancy of Stamm's Open 60, that one, even broken in two and with all the ballast still retained positive buoyancy and that on a 8T boats that had 3T of ballast, much more than the average.
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Old 22-12-2014, 12:59   #33
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Stupid question as I'm not a Cat sailor, just barely a sailor actually.

I've often wondered why an overload device isn't fitted to the main sheet?
Yes it could cause problems once you have lost control of the boom, and the boom could even be fatal, but it would be like an air bag in your car, that is the accidents happening, all your trying to do is lessen the blow. It should prevent capsize, extremely rare though as they are.
It can be done, cheaply and easily. Attach the mainsheet block to the boom using spectra of a breaking strain that will fail before loads get to the point of capsize.
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Old 22-12-2014, 14:43   #34
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

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wide beam increases the chance of pitchpoling
Could you please elaborate on exactly how the wide beam increases pitch moment?

---

Polux, what is good about the Chris White article are the tips on how to avoid capsize.
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Old 22-12-2014, 14:46   #35
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

Great idea- but what happens when the spectra gets old?
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Old 22-12-2014, 14:51   #36
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

Also many times it is not only the wind but a wind and wave combination. The energy needed to capsize the cat on flat water can be much less if the cat is heeled by a wave.
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Old 22-12-2014, 14:53   #37
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

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Great idea- but what happens when the spectra gets old?

It breaks and you replace it, maybe not Spectra, but links that give away at a pre-set load are not complicated, not that expensive really.
I'm new at this and my Main sheet leads to a winch on my cabin roof too. Awhile back when I suddenly got hit with a 30 kt+ gust with full sail up I couldn't get to it fast enough, all I could do was turn hard into the wind. we didn't even come close to being knocked down, just I realized that if hit suddenly with a bad pre-frontal gust, micro burst, whatever, I didn't have a quick way to deal with it.

So, now I just reef early and give up the speed, don't know what else to do.
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Old 22-12-2014, 14:56   #38
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Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

Wouldn't even be that hard to make a winch that would let out line in a controlled fashion, like the drag on a good fishing reel, it could even be adjustable, like a good fishing reel.

On edit, I think this would be safer than a boom suddenly being turned loose
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Old 22-12-2014, 15:09   #39
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

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Could you please elaborate on exactly how the wide beam increases pitch moment?
.
For a boat of a given length, if you increase the beam (ie: change the L/B ratio), it's not typically done in a vacume. If you keep the mast/sail area the same, you don't gain any performance advantage. So the typical response is to put a taller mast and bigger sails on the wider beam boat. Also as you go wider, you need more bridge deck clearance, so the ceneter of gravity for the boat is higher.
- The capsize moment looks good because the extra beam directly helps that.
- Pitchpole moment is slightly worse due to the higher center of gravity but other wise unchanged by the wider beam but the taller mast creates a larger moment arm.

Theoretically, you could put a short mast on a wider beam boat but it will be slow and whats the point in widening the boat, just stay with the shorter mast on the 2-1 ratio boat that is reasonably safe already.
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Old 22-12-2014, 15:15   #40
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

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...
I'm new at this and my Main sheet leads to a winch on my cabin roof too. Awhile back when I suddenly got hit with a 30 kt+ gust with full sail up I couldn't get to it fast enough, all I could do was turn hard into the wind. we didn't even come close to being knocked down, just I realized that if hit suddenly with a bad pre-frontal gust, micro burst, whatever, I didn't have a quick way to deal with it.

So, now I just reef early and give up the speed, don't know what else to do.
Before you being hit by a micro burst you should take away all the sails. The problem is that at night you can see it The wind can pass suddenly and without any intermediate warning from 20K to 100K. If you have any sail up, even a reefed one, you are in trouble and even without sails you will probably be knocked down, if you take it on the side.
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Old 22-12-2014, 15:24   #41
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

Maybe attach the aft-most block in your main sheet tackle to the boom with a snap shackle? Tape the lanyard along the boom back to the helm. Reach up and give it a yank if you need to, instant ease.
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Old 22-12-2014, 15:25   #42
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Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

Only time I have ever been hit with a microburst was in a hovering helicopter, I overtorqued it bad trying to not hit the ground, luckily we had so much data collection on the Longbow that it exonerated me, wind went from 3 or 4 kts to 60+ in less than 2 sec, maybe if it hits beside of you, you will get a warning by seeing the effect on the water or someting, but if your hit directly, no warning, just suddenly your in it, and a few seconds later, it's over. So sudden, you wonder if it really happened kind of thing. Micro bursts can be anything from little breezes, to slam the airliner into the ground strong.
I just don't think you can prepare for one anymore than say a lightning strike
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Old 22-12-2014, 15:33   #43
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

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Maybe attach the aft-most block in your main sheet tackle to the boom with a snap shackle? Tape the lanyard along the boom back to the helm. Reach up and give it a yank if you need to, instant ease.

Thats an idea, I'll give it some thought.

Didn't mean to de-rail the thread, just thought both multi's and mono's sort of suffer from sudden un-expected gusts, course mono's may not be capsized, but who wants to be knocked down, or maybe dismasted?
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Old 22-12-2014, 15:55   #44
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

If I have it correctly, standing rigging on multihulls tends to be of a larger size when compared to monos with the same area precisely because the two types of boats react differently.
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Old 22-12-2014, 15:55   #45
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Re: Capsized Atlantic 57 Salvaged

Not oversized, just correctly sized for the loads (which are larger than comparable monos).

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