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Old 13-09-2017, 21:59   #16
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

IMO you can get there from here. Have a look at bluewaterboats.org to for a few more good ones. They don't have prices but reviews of boats are good. I'd say 30K for a good boat and then 20K for stuff... but are you sure you want to blow your whole wad on the boat? And how is your cash flow? Boats seem to love a cash flow.
If it were me.. as anyone who has seen my annoying obsessive posts will probably guess, I'd be looking at a boat from the 60s, probably a Pearson Rhodes 41 or a Grampian Classic or Hughes 38, something of that ilk.. but I happen to be one who likes the old-school CCA hull motion... but in Australia, I am not sure what the best choices in the classics may be.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...+classics.html
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Old 13-09-2017, 22:19   #17
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

oops. sorry, I didn't read all your responses there. You can get a great boat for 50K IMO... and your preferences will be informed by your sailing experience. You may prefer a flatter, faster, hull with a spade rudder like a Cal 40 or the motion of a a more full keel hull or something in between that can blend the best of both worlds, like a Peterson 44, with more of a fin keel and skeg-hung rudder....
Many boats are sailing the world with spade rudders, but I personally would look for skeg or keel-hung rudder, for cruising, but that's just because of a negative experience I had once.
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Old 13-09-2017, 22:46   #18
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by laika View Post
Are you willing to hunt down the boat far and wide, or are you limited to options nearby? That might determine a lot. Personally, my take after limiting my own search only to "ultra bluewater", and now having a bit more experience, is that most boats can get you there. What's more important is knowing the boat, having good ground tackle, and knowing how to maintain the systems onboard. Whatever you get, try your best to personally vouch for every inch of her and you'll be in good shape. Large or small, it's more a function of comfort rather than safety.

I was in my mid 20s when I moved aboard and wish I had some of your criteria in mind. I went with small and quality over large and "value-minded" and while I don't have any regrets, 7 years in a larger boat does seem to be in the cards at some point. But that said, it's all so personal that it's really a moot point to say anything out loud about it. Bottom line is you can make any reasonable choice work just fine, and you'll not regret a minute of it.

Re: autonomy beyond sound rig/hull/sails/engine, the watermaker has to be at the top of the list for me personally. Also way over-the-top ground tackle. And reliable cleanable watertanks, solar, good AP and windvane, good fishing gear.

Anyway, musings from a guy who was in pretty much the same position you are now. Have fun in the search, find something you can put your heart and money into, and go do it. Dont spend too much time in a boatyard getting ready to go. Easy to get carried away and lose sight of the real objective. The boat's a constant work in progress and the lifestyle affords you arguably the last real bastion of freedom in the world, so don't sweat the small stuff.
I will be indeed willing to go far and wide, as well as being time flexible.
Hell, I still have most of my life ahead of me.
Funny side effect is that it triggers some questioning about the time to invest :
Right now, my budget allows for pretty much the boat and 2-3 years sailing.
- Should I keep working hard for an extra year and get enough to sail 2 more ?
- Should I keep working hard for an extra 3 years and get enough to sail 5 more ?
- Should I keep working hard for an extra 10 years and be close to set for life ?

Where do you draw the line ?
When does it feel right to go ?

Anyway, I'll probably try to hold on as long as I can, jump on a good boat deal if I see one and start from there. Such a project sure triggers a lot of side thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I would say that 2 oversized autopilots and upgraded electrical system or a windvane and a regular autopilot at a must for any short-handed cruising.

If you are offshore using the autopilot 24/7 for weeks at a time it needs to be oversized to last. And when it breaks down in the middle of no-where you need an immediate replacement or you will be hand-steering until you reach someplace where it can be repaired or sent for repairs.

A windvane is much more durable than electronics on a boat, and it requires no power supply. In very light winds or while motoring the regular (or even undersized) autopilot can be hooked to the vane-gear in place of the wind blade and it will steer the boat using a lot less power and wear&tear than hooking it directly to the tiller/wheel. If the vane-gear packs it in you can still use the autopilot directly on the tiller/wheel but you'd better be heading towards repair at that point.

Regardless of whether you intend to use any sheet-to-tiller self-steering system buy "Self-steering without a windvane" by Lee Woas and keep it on the boat. If all the other steering aids fail you can fall back on the ideas in that book.

I'm kinda with IslaAid on hanked on sails. The only way I would be happy with a roller furling/reefing headsail is if I had a removable inner forestay to set storm sails on.
Thanks a lot for the info on single-handling as well as the extended list.
I will be sure to have a special look at the steering system and be sure to have backups.
Both really appreciated !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
oops. sorry, I didn't read all your responses there. You can get a great boat for 50K IMO... and your preferences will be informed by your sailing experience. You may prefer a flatter, faster, hull with a spade rudder like a Cal 40 or the motion of a a more full keel hull or something in between that can blend the best of both worlds, like a Peterson 44, with more of a fin keel and skeg-hung rudder....
Many boats are sailing the world with spade rudders, but I personally would look for skeg or keel-hung rudder, for cruising, but that's just because of a negative experience I had once.
I have only been on full keels in actual sailing conditions so far.
I guess I need to jump on spades or skegs to have a feel for it.
Although as an avid underwater photographer, I intend to do a fair bit of exploration, so I would feel a lot safer with the sturdiness of a full keel rudder.
I will still keep an open mind anyway

On a general note, from all the info I gathered over the past few months.
I don't really feel like I need anything 38 feet+.
I kinda feel like the 30-36' range would be perfect.
A lot of people in here said that costs double every 5 feet of LOA so I would rather try and get the minimal boat that meets my needs to keep it simple and efficient.
Also keep in mind that I am a single 28 Years old. Comfort is not that important.
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Old 14-09-2017, 00:21   #19
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

To OP:

If you want to stretch your dollar look for less than famous names/models. Everyone and his uncle is looking for a well known model but few will even consider a model with less than 100 boats made. Sure sometime there were good reasons why the company folded after less than 100 models but more often these reasons had more to do with economics than with quality issues, etc. Think of late 80s-early 90s perfect storm which killed many a boat builder - recession, US luxury tax and changes in the tax laws which stopped favoring passive investments. So your best bet would be a 35-40 footer from one of those folded builders which otherwise would still be around.

And another important issue. With a budget well under $100K it is axiomatic that you will have to be a hands on DIY owner. Meaning anything from regular engine service to fiberglass repair work will most likely to be done by you or if lucky with enthusiastic help of marine pro buddies and friends. I would invest some $$ into diesel and electrical courses and/or volunteer to help boat owning friends with their DIY boat work. This knowledge will go a long way in saving you big $$ down the road.

PS In my experience it's the models with production runs in the hundreds/thousands which are much more prone to shoddy workmanship issues, etc. Precisely because such major operations are very hard to control over the years of production and personnel/management/ownership changes often meant changes in quality while the "good name" of the company was still selling its models.
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Old 14-09-2017, 00:36   #20
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Morane View Post
On a general note, from all the info I gathered over the past few months.
I don't really feel like I need anything 38 feet+.
I kinda feel like the 30-36' range would be perfect.
A lot of people in here said that costs double every 5 feet of LOA so I would rather try and get the minimal boat that meets my needs to keep it simple and efficient.
Also keep in mind that I am a single 28 Years old. Comfort is not that important.
As to the LOA - more modern boats are way more roomy for their size compared to 70s-80s boats. So you can get pretty much similar interior (with some sacrifice of storage space) from say late 90s 32-33 footer than from 80s 35-36 footer or even from 70s 37-38 footer or 60s 40 footer.

This helps in the price department as the availability of 30-33 footers is way greater then say 35-40 footers and the prices are relatively lower (considering the age, amenities, etc).

One caution though - more modern wide production boats tend to be built more lightly and with less quality control compared to their 70s-80s predecessors. The very idea of "production boat" has changed from a few dozens built back then would already qualify for the monicker of "production boat" while today's charter fleets dump hundreds of truly production boats (built in the hundreds) on the market each year. But that's another issue altogether.
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Old 14-09-2017, 08:46   #21
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

I just happen to have a 1969 41' aft cockpit Morgan K/CB my wife and I have been cruising the Bahamas in the winters. She is ready to go South again and priced at $30,000.

Contact me at newtoncollyar@gmail.com for full specs.

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Old 14-09-2017, 08:58   #22
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Our scenarios are similar - ocean crossings, off grid, budget. Our budget is much higher but I'm from the school of thought that 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'. Cash saved on boat\refit extends our cruising calendar tremendously.

We are torn between a 95-99 Catalina 42 MkII and a 1988 C&C 41 to cross from Halifax into the Med next June and back via the ARC in about 5-6 years. For half the price, the C&C has a cored hull, is better equipped (solar, wind, watermaker, radar-planning on updating as required ~$USD20k) solid transom (no scoop) and is darker and less roomy below. Like many others I find all things boat related are a compromise.

There are a dozen or so C&C 41s on YW and several on Boatlistings.com and Boats.ca - some Great Lakes (freshwater) boats used only 5 months per year, In short, the C&C under consideration has only 15 total years of use, exposed to minimal UV in the Great lakes, hauled for 7 months per year and best of all - NO SALT!

While it appears we are leaning toward the Catalina, it has been a great exercise in mental masturbation to consider every aspect of this comparo of very different philosophical and design approaches to a cruiser.

Good luck!
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Old 14-09-2017, 09:26   #23
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Bob,

If I were you and I were serious about offshore cruising I would go bigger than 35 feet. You can find a boat my size with your budget and still have $ for refit. Just have to find a motivated seller. They're out there. I single hand a 42' Pearson ketch with no issues and I only really got into sailing cruising boats about 5 years ago.

Sure, there are many who have sailed small boats all over the world, but that doesn't mean they didn't wish they had a bigger boat! Especially when the going got rough.

Personally, I think there's no replacement for displacement when the weather is gnarly. (I'm asking for it now... I'm gonna be berated with stories of nutbars successfully crossing oceans in bathtubs and oil drums...)

A 35' boat is likely to weigh half as much as my 42'. Displacement increases rapidly as you add a couple feet to a boat.

Anyhow, a longer LWL also = more speed, which is very very nice. I stepped up to my 42' from a 30' and man what a difference in how long it takes to get there.

I would go as big as you can afford. Trust me. You may someday wish you had a bigger boat, but you'll never wish it was smaller.

Fair winds.
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Old 14-09-2017, 09:42   #24
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Morane View Post
Yes, budget is 50k$ US for the boat + refit approximately. Or 65k$ AuD.
Did you spent much on refitting the boat after purchase ?
Was it close to blue water ready already ?
How does a 35" feels during ocean crossings / offshore sailing ?



I already read quite a lot of it and it is, indeed, really helpful.
For example, a month ago it linked to that boat :

Westerly 33 Ketch, have to sell

Over-equipped 30+ sized boat, blue water capable with a recent, extensive refit which ended up sold for 16500$ on Ebay.

Needless to say this is exactly the kind of deal I will be looking at getting. (And I guess we all are)
Sadly the timing was off about 6 months.

But anyway, thanks a lot for keeping this thread alive, useful Infos for thousands of people out there.



Cheers for the insight !
I'll have a closer look to C&Cs and Cal 40's.
I follow steady hand's thread as closely as anybody with my dream and my budget should



I am still hopeful I will find a partially or even fully refitted boat.
I am patient and able to move worldwide to get the boat, starting April 2018.
Also I am willing to wait a year or two as well as I get more money the longer I stay in my current situation.
That should hopefully put me in a good position to reach these evasive good deals.


Yes, owing a boat is like a thread mill of maintenance.
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Old 14-09-2017, 10:00   #25
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Morane View Post
Right now, my budget allows for pretty much the boat and 2-3 years sailing.
- Should I keep working hard for an extra year and get enough to sail 2 more ?
- Should I keep working hard for an extra 3 years and get enough to sail 5 more ?
- Should I keep working hard for an extra 10 years and be close to set for life ?

Where do you draw the line ?
When does it feel right to go ?
Sh!t! No wrong answers?!? 8 years ago I was sure I'd spend the rest of my life on the water. 6 years in I found I wanted drier feet and more stability. Came back home. Got into flying, which is almost like sailing. Now cruising part time with the GF when her farm gets shuttered for the winter. All I know is that I'd be slapping myself for waiting another 10 years before starting the life that made sense to me then.
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Old 14-09-2017, 11:47   #26
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

I have sailed single handed extensively on big boats. Hardest part is handling sails. Taking main down, when it gets stuck and wind blowing 40 knots. Handling things early is key.
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Old 14-09-2017, 12:10   #27
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

I suggest (hypothetically of course) you focus on well built older boats in the 30-36 foot range. There are plenty on the market. Get a solid boat with no frills. You don't need much to go cruising. Less stuff means less stuff to break/fix. Focus on whats important...a good sailing boat.

Personally, most of the places I want to go have thin water...Like the 1000 islands, 10,000 islands, and the Bahamas. So I would consider a mid 70's Pearson 35 which has a very shallow draft and a swing keel. These come up under $20,000 all the time, and occasionally under $10,000.

Or, if money really is a concern, go small, like a Pearson Triton. These can be purchased for next to nothing. Spend a few thou fixing it up, and still have $40,000 in the bank when you start cruising.

I had a 1973 Pearson 30 with a volvo diesel that I bought for next to nothing. I singlehanded it everywhere and had a blast. There was penty of space below, and more than enough storage for a long trip. The heavy glass gave it a solid feel in rough weather...and I took it in lots of rough weather.

Rather than pick a model and search for just that...look at what's available in your area. The more you learn, the more you know. And don't forget...looking is half the fun. When you are looking, you could buy ANY boat. But once you buy one, you only have that one boat.
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Old 14-09-2017, 12:15   #28
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

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Trust me. You may someday wish you had a bigger boat, but you'll never wish it was smaller.
...except when paying by the foot! (like at every marina, everywhere) :-)
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Old 14-09-2017, 12:35   #29
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Range, Cal, Columbia, Bristol, Alberg, Pearson, Alden, Alllied, C&C, Cascade, Erickson, Islander, Morgan, Newport, O'Day, Tartan, WestSail 32, Yankee
We had a similar list while searching, including most of the above; that's the way to go IMO but you can come up with a similar list for European/UK boats and there are a few outstanding Ozzie ones to include also, in your part of the globe.

We bought a boat that we considered 'ocean-ready' but we've still spent the same amount again on refit (new antifoul, new galley stove, radios, cushion covers, regalvanising chain... the list is endless). Even a brand new boat will need money spent.
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Old 14-09-2017, 12:41   #30
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

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...except when paying by the foot! (like at every marina, everywhere) :-)
I would say many (if not most) full-time cruisers are almost never, ever at a marina except to fuel up. It's too expensive. I have a mooring. And when we cruise, we anchor and dinghy to shore.

The exception is when I'm paying to have work done then I'm paying by the foot. Which is why I do nearly everything myself...
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