Broker-speak

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

OK, so you hate brokers. We get the message.

Ooh! I guess I must have touched a raw nerve. A little defensive, are we?

Actually, I don't hate brokers at all. Except for the couple of very small boats I've owned in my life (under $1,000 cost) I have used brokers every time I have bought and sold a boat. The good ones are worth every penny. But you do have to be on the lookout for the not-so-good ones.

If this is the best sales blurb that this particular broker can write, then my money says he is firmly in the latter group.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by sailpower

OK, so it appears that brokers describing a product for sale = bad.

No, actually, it is a broker describing it so poorly that is bad. If the rigging is not complete, just don't say anything at all about it, or say something like "may need some rigging work." Saying the rigging "was complete" is just stupid. That leaves it to the imagination of the person reading the advertising to fill in the blanks.

Same with saying it's mechanically above average "I would think." If you don't know, don't say anything. If you do know then say so. And if you are any sort of a professional then you SHOULD have a pretty darned good idea of what constitutes "above average" and what doesn't!

I guess that's really my problem with this ad. The boat might be in very reasonable condition, the engine might be great, the rigging might be complete, but the ad is so poorly written that it practically invites the reader to imagine the worst. A good broker would not have written an ad like this one.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by John A

Any person who makes their living by a commission lies. From a door to door salesman to a Wall Street CEO.
Their trying to sell something so that thet can make money.

what BS, if true every self employed person must be a lier, hell I must be a lier just in general

people go look at a boat that has a cheap/low price and there are surprised the boat isn't perfect

[Factor]

Originally Posted by John A

Any person who makes their living by a commission lies. From a door to door salesman to a Wall Street CEO.
Their trying to sell something so that thet can make money.

And what is it that you do for a living?

[zeehag]

brokers DO lie. is their j0b to SELL boats, not store em. these days they are storing them. i saw a vagabond 47 shown by a broker..the wood capraisl were totally rottenand the interior sole needed to be replaced from overhead leaks--he said the wood just needed varnish--rofl..... he said the engine runs beautifully--i was afraid to turn it on....didnt want to blow it up.... the caprail had been sanded 1/8 inch off--wasnt good for supporting the rig, and that SHOWED...was a travesty boat needing 100 percent refit. he was insisting on 130,000usd for this disrepair. is a sad thing. when ye hear the broker talk about something you SEE as wrong but he says is right--just shows he knws nothing abo9ut the boat he is trying to sell.
that isnt only example of broker fail i have seen.
i have had my ericson with a broker for 3 yrs--he couldnt be bothered to show a 30k usd boat. i removed it from market. i dont need to sell that badly--i sign it over to the former owner of this formosa 1 year from next month.
broker problems are worse than used car salesman problems.

i DID get a broker to admit to wrongs with a boat a friend was looking at--was a rafiki in mazatlan=---severely neglected, as was the vagabond, but the broker was almost honest in saying the boat was infested with killer bees and cockroaches. his holdback was that there had been no rent paid for over 10,000usd

[John A]

Originally Posted by Factor

And what is it that you do for a living?

Retired for 12 years.

Sorry to offend so many. My comment was from my experiences with my ex-inlaws, RV and used-car sales-persons.

Apparently I still have some anger issues.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by zeehag

brokers DO lie. is their j0b to SELL boats, not store em. these days they are storing them.

No argument. Some brokers do lie. I have seen them do it and even worked for a few (not for long). But you can't say all brokers are liars just because some are. I pride myself that I never lied about a boat I was trying to sell. I lost a few sales that way but never lost the customer because they appreciated the honesty and came back to buy a different boat.

I happen know some sailors are thieves. I have had electronics stolen from my boat in America by American sailors. So should I say sailors in general are thieves or for that matter liveaboards are bums?

[Celestialsailor]

My experience with brokers are about 50/50. My experience with the general public is about 50/50. What does that tell you?

[zeehag]

skipmac--the PROBLEM is that you are an exception to the broker rule-- some i knew for loong time as friends come out a stotal used car salesmen when someone is interested in one of their boats.. some sailors steal--my charts were stolen by a spozedly honest jerk of a sailor last spring in mazatlan....ther eis a sailor tye soul here just ripped off a couple who havent much income-- he took money up front and split..they now havent a forestay , with bad summer weather coming up--they now have to find more money to repair their problem. some folks as individuals are sick, without ethics nor moral standards..
.many live aboards are bums. some liveaboards make meth and sell it-- each lil conclave of humans has a defect-- but not ALL are same--many may be same, but there are good souls in with the bad apples.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

My experience with brokers are about 50/50. My experience with the general public is about 50/50. What does that tell you?

I can't decide if this is funny or sad, though it did make me laugh.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by zeehag

skipmac--the PROBLEM is that you are an exception to the broker rule-- some i knew for loong time as friends come out a stotal used car salesmen when someone is interested in one of their boats.. some sailors steal--my charts were stolen by a spozedly honest jerk of a sailor last spring in mazatlan....ther eis a sailor tye soul here just ripped off a couple who havent much income-- he took money up front and split..they now havent a forestay , with bad summer weather coming up--they now have to find more money to repair their problem. some folks as individuals are sick, without ethics nor moral standards..
.many live aboards are bums. some liveaboards make meth and sell it-- each lil conclave of humans has a defect-- but not ALL are same--many may be same, but there are good souls in with the bad apples.

I'm glad you put me in the good group.

Also, cannot deny there are a lot of brokers that are sadly lacking in the ethics department. Like I've said, got to see a lot of it first hand, behind the scenes when the buyers aren't around. Maybe I'm an incurable optimist but hate to think that most brokers (or realtors, used car salesmen or even lawyers) are dishonest. I knew a lot of guys that were honest sailors that just wanted to make a living in the boating business.

Plus it would just be too depressing to think of the majority of the world as scoundrels.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I can't decide if this is funny or sad, though it did make me laugh.

Ha ha,,,I think it's more of a reflection of my personal tolerance towards people. Either I have a low pain threshold or I've been in the mix too long!

[zeehag]

mebbe isnt an honesty factor as an income factor in a bad market--just sayin....they live for the commission they do not receive in bad market--they are used to this income that has fallen off and they have fallen on hard times----can make even honest folks dishonest to make a buck.

[Noname]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Pretty rude, blanket indictment of sales people.

I used to be a yacht broker and have worked for years trading chemicals on commission and I do not tell lies to make sales. I have a lot a friends in the business that I know do not lie. Some do tell lies, won't deal with them.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

No, actually, it is a broker describing it so poorly that is bad. If the rigging is not complete, just don't say anything at all about it, or say something like "may need some rigging work." Saying the rigging "was complete" is just stupid. That leaves it to the imagination of the person reading the advertising to fill in the blanks.

Same with saying it's mechanically above average "I would think." If you don't know, don't say anything. If you do know then say so. And if you are any sort of a professional then you SHOULD have a pretty darned good idea of what constitutes "above average" and what doesn't!

I guess that's really my problem with this ad. The boat might be in very reasonable condition, the engine might be great, the rigging might be complete, but the ad is so poorly written that it practically invites the reader to imagine the worst. A good broker would not have written an ad like this one.

I thanked you for a heads up thinking that I was reading an informed statement. Turns out it was just voices in your head.

The owner of this P365 should be rightly pi**ed off that some internet cowboy with an active imagination is making stuff up about his boat and posting it as an actual report.

Kinda makes you just like those brokers that you love to hate.