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Old 12-11-2012, 12:44   #181
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
An emergency call for a failed alternator????
I would hope not.
You'd be surprised what I hear on Channel 16 in the little 'ole Chesapeake.
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Old 12-11-2012, 13:03   #182
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
You'd be surprised what I hear on Channel 16 in the little 'ole Chesapeake.
I do understand.
I once heard a mayday call from a charter boat only half a mile from me. At the time I was saling a 25 foot boat and was preparing to go go to the assistance of the 45 foot boat broadcasting the call, but after some discussion with coastguard and charter base it turns out the "mayday" was only because it rough and bumpy
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Old 12-11-2012, 13:40   #183
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
You seriously think those openable portholes are as strong as windows sealed and screwed from the outside? I'm surprised.
Actually, I think that openable portholes are much stronger than windows. (We're talking about boats here, right?)

Your original statement, "My boat has portholes that open. Before I took this boat bluewater I would replace them with fixed" is a perfect example of what I'm coming to think of as "bluewater paranoia." Right at this moment, this very moment, there are thousands of boats and ships transiting the ocean with portholes without any problem whatsoever. Really.

I'll never forget the first time I got caught offshore in a gale. We ran before it for two days in a 14' swell with breaking waves. I kept thinking we would get pooped, probably because of hearing sentiment such as has already been expressed in this thread, that being pooped is inevitable. And yet my sugar-scooped boat lifted her dainty stern over every breaking wave, every breaking wave, for 48 hours running. Why? Because she wasn't some awkward 4ksb with the displacement/length ratio of a bulldozer and more washboards than freeboard.

If folks want to go to sea in a lifeboat with all the portholes nailed shut, be my guest. But this talk of "prudent terror" and the consequent fear of cockpits, portholes, sugar-scoop transoms, et cetera is nonsense. Let's call it what it really is: bluewater paranoia.

As I maintained early on in this thread, the ocean just isn't that scary. Certainly not scary enough to induce me to weld my portholes shut.
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Old 12-11-2012, 14:21   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash
Actually, I think that openable portholes are much stronger than windows. (We're talking about boats here, right?)

Your original statement, "My boat has portholes that open. Before I took this boat bluewater I would replace them with fixed" is a perfect example of what I'm coming to think of as "bluewater paranoia." Right at this moment, this very moment, there are thousands of boats and ships transiting the ocean with portholes without any problem whatsoever. Really.

I'll never forget the first time I got caught offshore in a gale. We ran before it for two days in a 14' swell with breaking waves. I kept thinking we would get pooped, probably because of hearing sentiment such as has already been expressed in this thread, that being pooped is inevitable. And yet my sugar-scooped boat lifted her dainty stern over every breaking wave, every breaking wave, for 48 hours running. Why? Because she wasn't some awkward 4ksb with the displacement/length ratio of a bulldozer and more washboards than freeboard.

If folks want to go to sea in a lifeboat with all the portholes nailed shut, be my guest. But this talk of "prudent terror" and the consequent fear of cockpits, portholes, sugar-scoop transoms, et cetera is nonsense. Let's call it what it really is: bluewater paranoia.

As I maintained early on in this thread, the ocean just isn't that scary. Certainly not scary enough to induce me to weld my portholes shut.
Every "Heavy Displacement" cruiser I can think of has opening ports. The Hans Christian 50' down the dock has them, the forty something foot Westsail next to us at the last marina had them, Swans, Hinkleys, and Morris have them. What boat doesn't have opening ports, displacement aside?
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Old 12-11-2012, 14:31   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Actually, I think that openable portholes are much stronger than windows. (We're talking about boats here, right?)

Your original statement, "My boat has portholes that open. Before I took this boat bluewater I would replace them with fixed" is a perfect example of what I'm coming to think of as "bluewater paranoia." Right at this moment, this very moment, there are thousands of boats and ships transiting the ocean with portholes without any problem whatsoever. Really.

I'll never forget the first time I got caught offshore in a gale. We ran before it for two days in a 14' swell with breaking waves. I kept thinking we would get pooped, probably because of hearing sentiment such as has already been expressed in this thread, that being pooped is inevitable. And yet my sugar-scooped boat lifted her dainty stern over every breaking wave, every breaking wave, for 48 hours running. Why? Because she wasn't some awkward 4ksb with the displacement/length ratio of a bulldozer and more washboards than freeboard.

If folks want to go to sea in a lifeboat with all the portholes nailed shut, be my guest. But this talk of "prudent terror" and the consequent fear of cockpits, portholes, sugar-scoop transoms, et cetera is nonsense. Let's call it what it really is: bluewater paranoia.

As I maintained early on in this thread, the ocean just isn't that scary. Certainly not scary enough to induce me to weld my portholes shut.
LOL!

Indeed. Where in the world did these ideas come from?! I must have missed that thread.

My boat is full of opening hatches and ports, and no one would say she's not "bluewater capable". Man, I would go crazy in my boat if I couldn't open the ports, and I don't sail in the tropics, either!

And in fact the opening ports are really crappy looking Lewmar plastic jobs, which close with plastic tabs. I first saw these things in a Beneteau I chartered in the Aegean, and thought what a cheap piece of carp these production boats are. My old boat had chrome plated bronze ports. Then went Oyster shopping and found the exact same port in all Oysters made in the last 20 years.

And now I understand why they are universal -- they are maintenance free (unlike my old ports) and absolutely and totally hermetically leak proof -- not a drop, even submerged.

It is true, however, that the ports in my boat which are in the hull are not openable, which seems sensible to me. Not at all because you wouldn't trust the openable port not to leak, but because you wouldn't trust the owner to remember to close it, then bury the rail and sink his boat before he could hear the bilge alarm go off.
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Old 12-11-2012, 14:43   #186
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I do understand.
I once heard a mayday call from a charter boat only half a mile from me. At the time I was saling a 25 foot boat and was preparing to go go to the assistance of the 45 foot boat broadcasting the call, but after some discussion with coastguard and charter base it turns out the "mayday" was only because it rough and bumpy

My favorite was the guy who wanted the Coast Guard to come out and guide his boat to the channel that runs along the Skyway Bridge because his chart plotter had died. It's ... so hard to find ... Tiny little thing... Course, you have to know north end from south end ...
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Old 12-11-2012, 14:46   #187
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

I have sailed on a true go anywhere, under any conditions boat that didn't even get less comfortable during bad weather, ........and it didn't have any opening ports!!!! It was so great that unless someone told us there was a storm outside that we wouldn't even have known.

Of course this was a nuclear powered submarine!

Which proves and means nothing; like most of this thread!
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Old 12-11-2012, 14:48   #188
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I have sailed on a true go anywhere, under any conditions boat that didn't even get less comfortable during bad weather, ........and it didn't have any opening ports!!!! It was so great that unless someone told us there was a storm outside that we wouldn't even have known.

Of course this was a nuclear powered submarine!

Which proves and means nothing; like most of this thread!
ROTFLMAO!
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Old 12-11-2012, 15:16   #189
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Bash said to close it. He didn't say that there are good opening ports made now. THAT was good advice. The other was just a bash. Bash was not the one who gave the useful advice. That's OK. He's not obligated to, but I appreciate you and the other fellow telling me that.

i knew I could get very strong non-opening ports, but (obviously) I did not know the old ones -- most of which have cracked panes, by the way -- could be replaced with something so strong and still able to be opened.

I'll have to go have a look and see how well the screens stay in.
Look at the ports from Newfound Metals. A lot of Pearson owners are replacing the plastic ports with these. SS frames, heavy duty AND they open.

I think you can even get screens.
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Old 12-11-2012, 15:44   #190
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Re: !

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
And in fact the opening ports are really crappy looking Lewmar plastic jobs, which close with plastic tabs. I first saw these things in a Beneteau I chartered in the Aegean, and thought what a cheap piece of carp these production boats are. My old boat had chrome plated bronze ports. Then went Oyster shopping and found the exact same port in all Oysters made in the last 20 years.

And now I understand why they are universal -- they are maintenance free (unlike my old ports) and absolutely and totally hermetically leak proof -- not a drop, even submerged.
Brilliant. I've heard Hunter bashed for these same ports, and was equally surprised to see them on upscale production boats such as Oysters. My boat uses these along the coachroof over the galley, but uses beefier ports in the hull where things have to be bulletproof.
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Old 12-11-2012, 15:57   #191
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
I think I have made my argument as clear as possible and the sources I reference support everything I have said. You have to remember we have a Newbie asking if the 315 is Blue Water capable. Based on my definition, NO! The fact that any and all manner of craft have made successful voyages is irrelevant to this discussion. Boats are of seaworthy design or not. No manner of skill or years of experience by any biological entity will make them so.

As far as my Slocum is concerned or for that matter any boat, speed is a production of waterline length. You would be quite surprised by the number of logged daily miles by such boats as the Wet Snail you refer to. The fact is modern boat as compared to my Slocum are only marginally faster. What you should be asking is, what price am I paying for increased speed as opposed to seaworthiness.

It is a known fact that run of the mill production boats characteristically do not behave as well as the tried and true older designs at sea. From the viewpoint of seaworthiness (and I am quoting Marchaj) “they have in fact undergone a regressive evolution.” Why, because of the “need for speed”. As Marchaj states, “Designs of proven performance are a product of a common ancestor (the double ender which EVERY boat is below the waterline) before speed-fever descended upon sailing people so that speed for the sake of speed became the only desired feature of boats built according to rules made by man and not by the sea.”

Your assumption that I am less interested in discussing the real merits of any given boat but instead arguing that my boat is the best one is way off the mark. I have told you why the 315 in not a Blue Water capable cruiser. You and others on this forum have offered the Newbie nothing but milk toast. I and some left brainers have offered steak and eggs.

Now what do you think a Newbie would prefer for breakfast?

RT
I think you need to catch up on your reading….

Marchaj's text is certainly a benchmark text but my copy is copyrighted in 1986 and I believe most of his work was done before then. He discusses at length the issues inherent with the IOR rules and the 1979 fastnet race. Much of the points he makes are that the racing rules moved those vessels away from the seaworthiness of older vessels.

Most if not all current modern designers would have studied his work. however I would suggest yacht design has moved on and many new techniques, materials and ideas and designers have evolved. There are many new seaworthy proven design concepts that have evolved since that book was penned.

Steve Dashews extremely safe cruising designs are just one. Concepts such as the use of moveable ballast is nowdays not uncommon.

I would like to think that Marchaj would accept that his work has seen much of his work accepted helping to drive the design enhancments we see today and that seaworthliness has moved on.

In the catamaran field the work Lock Crowther and other naval architects did and others subsequently with tank testing following on from Marchaj's work has seen catamaran design evolve immensly also.

For myself I would prefer by be on a craft with enough reserve bouyancy that it remains on the surface in the worst case senario.

Cheers
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Old 12-11-2012, 16:17   #192
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Re: !

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Brilliant. I've heard Hunter bashed for these same ports, and was equally surprised to see them on upscale production boats such as Oysters. My boat uses these along the coachroof over the galley, but uses beefier ports in the hull where things have to be bulletproof.
My hull ports are also Lewmar -- tempered glass, non-opening. My boat has a raised sole in the salon and high coachroof ("doghouse" in English parlance) -- it's a so-called "raised salon" or "deck salon" design, with the step down aft or forward into the other interior spaces.

But damn it, unlike those of the Oysters which made this configuration famous, my doghouse windows don't open. They are all heavy tempered glass, and the forward-facing ones are quite narrow. They are good for checking out sail trim from the salon, but not much else. Did Bill Dixon, the designer, suffer from your "bluewater paranoia"? I'll ask him if I see him (his boat, "Tikka", lives just a hundred meters or so from mine). If you stand in the salon in any of the various H&P Oyster designs, you can look down the foredeck over the anchor. And the forward salon windows, made of heavy tempered glass, open. This is the main thing I regret about my boat, compared to the Oyster I almost bought
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Old 12-11-2012, 17:31   #193
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Look at the ports from Newfound Metals. A lot of Pearson owners are replacing the plastic ports with these. SS frames, heavy duty AND they open.

I think you can even get screens.
LOL I have screens! They just won't stay in, rather limiting their usefulness! For some incredible reason this boat stays cool. Usually a fan is enough, even in the summer, although I do have an AC and a wind scoop.

Thank you for the source. It is tremendously helpful to have a recommended source.
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Old 12-11-2012, 17:47   #194
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Look at the ports from Newfound Metals. A lot of Pearson owners are replacing the plastic ports with these. SS frames, heavy duty AND they open.

I think you can even get screens.
LOL I have screens! They just won't stay in, rather limiting their usefulness! For some incredible reason this boat stays cool. Usually a fan is enough, even in the summer, although I do have an AC and a wind scoop.

Thank you for the source. It is tremendously helpful to have a recommended source.
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Old 12-11-2012, 17:48   #195
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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Brilliant. I've heard Hunter bashed for these same ports, and was equally surprised to see them on upscale production boats such as Oysters. My boat uses these along the coachroof over the galley, but uses beefier ports in the hull where things have to be bulletproof.
I have one that leaks. Of course, I'm sure it's very old.
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