Wheels. Why so large? Why two?

[Jammer]

I rather like tiller steering. On sailboats, I've used nothing else.


As we contemplate switching to a considerably larger boat, I'm trying to figure out what's up with wheels. So many of them just seem huge. Take up all kinds of space in the cockpit. Hard to move around. And for what purpose? The whole idea of a wheel is that there are gears or sprockets or pulleys or whatever and the whole affair can be set to any desired gear ratio, so that a boat can be controlled with modest effort without the wheel having to be seven feet across.


So, what's up with these huge wheels?


Does it make sense to retrofit a more sensible wheel on boats so equipped?


And two helm stations? I don't get it. Help me out here.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I rather like tiller steering. On sailboats, I've used nothing else.


As we contemplate switching to a considerably larger boat, I'm trying to figure out what's up with wheels. So many of them just seem huge. Take up all kinds of space in the cockpit. Hard to move around. And for what purpose? The whole idea of a wheel is that there are gears or sprockets or pulleys or whatever and the whole affair can be set to any desired gear ratio, so that a boat can be controlled with modest effort without the wheel having to be seven feet across.


So, what's up with these huge wheels?


Does it make sense to retrofit a more sensible wheel on boats so equipped?


And two helm stations? I don't get it. Help me out here.

The huge wheels you talk about were not installed for any mechanical reason, rather they were there so the helmsman could steer from either side and have a good view no matter the heel of the boat.

Once race boat sterns and cockpits got SOOOOO wide that wasn't practical any more, the dual wheels were the next step.

So many production boats are built to the style set by the big shot racers. A great number of boats less than 60 feet have twin wheels because the cool race boats do, not because it is useful or practical.

What people buying cruising boats seem not to realize is that they are actually going to spend 99.992% of their time under autopilot. Almost the only time they will actually be steering the boat from the wheel is when they are in harbors and anchoring or docking. Hence the single, smaller, wheel common on serious cruising boats instead of boat pretending to be racers.

[Tillsbury]

All the above. A wheel gives you more usable cockpit space that isn’t needed for the sweep of the tiller. Whilst a wheel is nice, a small one doesn’t let you helm from the coaming, so the wheels got larger. Some boats in the 90s ended up with wheels the width of the cockpit, dividing it completely in two and fitting in a slot in the seating such that a misplaced limb would seem to be in serious danger.

Two wheels lets you helm comfortably from either side depending on where you need visibility. It also, crucially, allows easy access through from the stern now that most boats have much better stern access than before. The helmsman is no longer separated from everyone else. Since 2000 this has been the case on most boats 40’ and up, and more recently even a fair few below 40’ that have modern very wide sterns.

A couple of unexpected benefits are that two people can be at the helm at once — sometimes handy if they’re feeling a bit iffy. Also, you can let kids helm on their own while sitting a fair way away and surreptitiously having the other wheel in your hand. Also useful in close quarters, as you can helm easily coming in to a narrow box berth with good visibility down one side.

Twin wheels were one of the few must-haves on our current boat.

[Kenomac]

His and Her’s

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

His and Her’s

I took the key off the shaft on "her" wheel...

[James S]

When we did or refit/reconfiguration we built a canting helm.. mostly to allow easier access around our narrow cockpit... but its also proved a pretty comfy steering set up when heeled...

[AiniA]

Another nice feature is a folding wheel where the two sides of the wheel fold in so the wheel is no wider than the pedestal. Very useful when you are anchored or tied up.

[kas_1611]

Speaking as someone who has 2 wheels on their 40ft boat it makes sense to me. I can sit out wide when beating to windward and heeled over. I can sit on the stern comfortably when beating or running and I get get onboard through the gap between the wheels easily with a large bag. Or I can stand between the 2 wheels, hand on each and make fine adjustments if we're motoring.

Having twin helm positions also means you have a slightly clearer view forward as you're not looking through the mast or forestay but that's a minor one. it also means, theoretically, you have a spare. If the chain breaks between a wheel and the master chain the other wheel will still work. Well on my boat where we have 3 chains anyway.

My wheels aren't particularly large but you want a wheel you can stand comfortably at for hours without straining or reach from the guardrails. Ideally your arms should rest naturally on the top of the wheel when standing at the helm, relaxed without hunching your shoulders.

There's not right or wrong wheel or helm station, what works for one doesn't for another but there are valid reasons behind a central single wheel and twin helm stations.

[Wulf]

Originally Posted by billknny

I took the key off the shaft on "her" wheel...

[thomm225]

Two wheels for big boat racing.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_onrOYeRy0

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by billknny

The huge wheels you talk about were not installed for any mechanical reason, rather they were there so the helmsman could steer from either side and have a good view no matter the heel of the boat.

Once race boat sterns and cockpits got SOOOOO wide that wasn't practical any more, the dual wheels were the next step.

So many production boats are built to the style set by the big shot racers. A great number of boats less than 60 feet have twin wheels because the cool race boats do, not because it is useful or practical.

What people buying cruising boats seem not to realize is that they are actually going to spend 99.992% of their time under autopilot. Almost the only time they will actually be steering the boat from the wheel is when they are in harbors and anchoring or docking. Hence the single, smaller, wheel common on serious cruising boats instead of boat pretending to be racers.

Originally Posted by billknny

serious cruising boats instead of boat pretending to be racers

That's a pretty arrogant comment and it explains why you apparently never steer. We have a serious cruising boat, the boat doesn't pretend to be anything, but it is a joy to steer while not having to fight a dead feeling small wheel. That is, if you ever considered steering to be something you might enjoy.

Actually, one of the main reasons for a large wheel is to increase the "feel" of the helm. Steering a 40+ ft boat with a 30" wheel would be similar to steering with a 30" tiller unless gearing or other means of reduction are used to reduce the load. Once you gear down a smallish wheel then you have lost much of the feel and you also may have to do several turns on that wheel to turn the boat.

If, as is suggested, 99.9% of your time on the water is spent motoring or on autopilot these considerations don't matter. But steering a sailing boat, under sail, with a big wheel, is a joy when you can move it with your finger tips and you can feel the entire boat as it moves through the water. And you can steer from the (either) rail, see forward, see the telltails, see the water and waves. You get most of that with two wheels and they allow better use of the cockpit, however even two wheels need to be big to give the sailor the best control over the boat while sailing. Many boats, even bigger ones, have tillers, for simplicity and they allow the helmsperson to steer from the railing without the bulk of the huge wheel in the middle of the cockpit, however the tiller sweeps much of the cockpit floor and if it gets away from the driver while in reverse it can lash over and break an ankle.

In the end every solution contains some level of compromise except for those who never considered that they might enjoy steering or actually even simply sailing and motor everywhere. For them even a joy stick would probably suffice.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Speaking as someone who has 2 wheels on their 40ft boat it makes sense to me. I can sit out wide when beating to windward and heeled over. I can sit on the stern comfortably when beating or running and I get get onboard through the gap between the wheels easily with a large bag. Or I can stand between the 2 wheels, hand on each and make fine adjustments if we're motoring.

Having twin helm positions also means you have a slightly clearer view forward as you're not looking through the mast or forestay but that's a minor one. it also means, theoretically, you have a spare. If the chain breaks between a wheel and the master chain the other wheel will still work. Well on my boat where we have 3 chains anyway.

My wheels aren't particularly large but you want a wheel you can stand comfortably at for hours without straining or reach from the guardrails. Ideally your arms should rest naturally on the top of the wheel when standing at the helm, relaxed without hunching your shoulders.

There's not right or wrong wheel or helm station, what works for one doesn't for another but there are valid reasons behind a central single wheel and twin helm stations.

The difference is that you're a sailor.

[MJH]

All boats are a compromise and I think twin steering wheels are more marketing than anything else...some think it just looks cool. With twice the expense and mechanical hardware that will need maintenance and eventual replacement, I think it is a bad tradeoff. Who will buy these boats when replacement is warranted...it is built-in obsolescence. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) rules in my world. A previous writer mentioned that the use of an autopilot negates the need for the twins, I agree. On my recent roundtrip to Hawaii operating under a Monitor windvane and huddled under the dodger, having twins would have been of no value. It all seems like so much ridiculous overkill to me, I only see some value for the ardent racer of which there are few of us sailing.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[daletournier]

Im not particularly attached to my two wheels, I could easily have one BUT there are some advantages.

On my boat the wheels have independent cables therefore redundacy, if a steering cable breaks I have a spare ready to go.

When docking a beamy boat its nice to be on which ever side you choose.

At anchor wheels on the side give a clear passage way to the transom swim area and improve cockpit access in general.

The suggestion of "real cruising boats" have one wheel is just ridiculous , where does that line of thought end? "Real cruising boats" vary in many ways.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by MJH

All boats are a compromise and I think twin steering wheels are more marketing than anything else...some think it just looks cool. With twice the expense and mechanical hardware that will need maintenance and eventual replacement, I think it is a bad tradeoff. Who will buy these boats when replacement is warranted...it is built-in obsolescence. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) rules in my world. A previous writer mentioned that the use of an autopilot negates the need for the twins, I agree. On my recent roundtrip to Hawaii operating under a Monitor windvane and huddled under the dodger, having twins would have been of no value. It all seems like so much ridiculous overkill to me, I only see some value for the ardent racer of which there are few of us sailing.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

And whats wrong with a boat or the features of a boat looking cool? If two wheels are functional and look cool isnt that ok? Im fairly sure aschetics are taken into account when all boats are originally penned.

The KISS argument gets tiring, lets go back to hank on sails and sextants, simple is best right, while we are at it let's get rid of that pesty engine, unnecessary maintaince. Another argument that is subjective, where does it stop, what's really nessacary? If lets get rid of all wheels , lets simplify and only have tillers or a steering oar.