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Old 05-12-2018, 21:17   #31
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

When you use the riding sail, how do you set it?
Centered over the boat?
Off to the side?
Tight and flat?
Loose with a bit of curve?
High up?
Low down?

The idea that "all boats do it" is right on one level, but as you see for sure, some boats do it a LOT more than others.
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Old 05-12-2018, 21:38   #32
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

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I really don’t want to drag all that chain through the mud, but as may give that a try, it’s really only a problem in higher winds like today, gusting to 25 kts.Attachment 181752

Try dragging a second anchor, as I suggested. It is a traditional method that I have found very effective. Much more effective than a little chain. Very short scope.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:12   #33
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

My boat has a short, [7'6" on the bottom], fin keel & is really bad at this. I believe it is a factor of the hulls directional stability. Alyth will run straight & true even surfing in heavy conditions, which is really great on passage, but she was very bad at this at anchor.


I bought a block of land on one of the bay islands in Morton bay, [Brisbane Oz], to build a weekender/retirement home. About 10% of the time the wind blew straight up the channel with or against the tide. With a strong flood tide & a stiff [20 knots +] against it she would be tide rode, with her stern pointing into the wind, A fair chop up to a couple of feet that would develop.


As I figured this chop slapping under the counter would ultimately damage the boat, I had to sell, & buy elsewhere.


I had the same trouble even with launches with almost no keel, when running outer reef charter fishing trips on the Great Barrier Reef. There was no land on the reefs we used, but at spring lows some dried a few feet. These would be under water 6 or 8 Ft on spring highs, & most reefs were deeper. It is quite surprising how much lea even reef this deep can offer when it is a few miles thick.


We could anchor quite comfortably behind these reefs, or in submerged lagoons in winds up to about 20 knots. We would suffer this tide road, stern into the wind for an hour or two, when the flood was running at 3 knots or a little more near the peak. This never caused us any problem even in smaller launches down around 45 Ft. In the larger ones it was even less problem, but I have seen the whites of a few tourists who obviously did think it was a problem.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:33   #34
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

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How do you deal with it? Our boat is full keel and sails at anchor much more than most boats in an anchorage.
Everyone thinks "they" sail at anchor more than others. I know that you don't, because I do! But, it doesn't bother me anymore.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:58   #35
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

One thing I've noticed is that when we have the boat stripped for upcoming storms, ie both furling sails out of the foretriangle, she sails much less at anchor. Thus, I believe that windage forward is a big contributor to the problem. Boats with multiple furling sails and high freeboard suffer from this issue.

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Old 06-12-2018, 12:12   #36
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

I also have Bristol 27 experience (full keel) and we always assumed the condition was normal. Picking your anchorage for wind and tide / current is not always possible but we had used a marina one year who's mooring field was tight. As best as they could they kept the motorboats and fin keels separate from the full keels. Seems to be a fact of life and so we opted for more space. If you're going to be aboard, a spring line with opposing rudder seems to be the best option for a consistently uncomfortable ride.
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Old 06-12-2018, 17:08   #37
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

Our boat is long keel heavy displacement and she tacks backwards at anchor in a bit of a breeze, even with all chain.
Has anybody tried attaching a rope to the chain and leading it to the stern, so you are effectively anchored backwards? I have not tried it, but believe it may solve the problem, so long as you don't mind transom and rudder facing the breeze.


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Old 06-12-2018, 17:55   #38
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

When at anchor the chain/rode is not in the centre of the vessel, for many boats. This causes the boat to ride at an angle to the wind and I believe causes it to 'sail'. Once you begin 'sailing' it is a nonstop happening, the vessel tacks and you go the other direction and so on.
I use a bridle as a snubber line. My fairleads at the bow are probably less that a foot apart but the boat is much more stable. As the vessel begins to sail, the leeward line will have the load and tends to bring the bow back up into the wind. It works for me.
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Old 06-12-2018, 19:41   #39
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

OP,

As I recall, don’t you have a mountain of windage well above the waterline in the form of 1000-1500w of fixed rigid solar panels on a stainless frame forming a bimini? Seems to me that rig would have you sailing back and forth like a cabin cruiser powerboat.
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Old 06-12-2018, 19:45   #40
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

Sailing at anchor and dealing with current are two different problems. You basically aren't going to solve tbe current against uthe wind at anchor problem unless you are willing to put out an upstream and downstream anchor. Current velocity and direction is continually changing as is wind.

Sailing around your anchor occurs with all boats and as has been noted seems to be precieved as yours is worse than the others in the anchorage. As Jim mentioned the amount of windage upfront has a lot of effect. Two loosely rolled headsails makes for decent forward drive in the wind.
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Old 06-12-2018, 20:20   #41
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

Lake Worth can be a pain. 5kt current when the tide is running hard, and wind from due north or south has a lot of fetch to build up waves.

We grenaded an oversized 6" chock on our sailboat when the wind held our nose pointing south but the current pushed us south over our anchor- the anchor snubber was running a 150 degree turn from the cleat to the chain with the chock as the turning point. Clear windy day and boom it exploded and sounded like a gunshot.

A 2 luff riding sail would help, or as long as there is a good breeze turn the rudder over and lock it so the rudder and the single luff riding sail are combatting each other. It'll take some experimenting but you can likely find a balance point.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:13   #42
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny View Post
When you use the riding sail, how do you set it?
Centered over the boat?
Off to the side?
Tight and flat?
Loose with a bit of curve?
High up?
Low down?

The idea that "all boats do it" is right on one level, but as you see for sure, some boats do it a LOT more than others.
Not to reinvent the wheel, I found the best description from the Sailrite website describing the anchor sail kit.
""Hoist the sail on the boat’s backstay. If the backstay is split, it
is perfectly fine to hoist the sail on the “windward” leg of the
backstay. Then sheet the sail forward to the side of the boat
so that it is actually sailing the boat to one side of the anchor
rode. Do not set the sail right down the center of the boat."
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:42   #43
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

My experience agrees with this.
I've found that foretriangle windage is a definite cause of sailing. Furled double headsail and bowsprit all add windage forward. On our full keel boat at the mouth of a river, she generally makes love to the mooring except at slack. The gear must be attached below the mooring ball. I've found no real solution to this "current" problem. It may also be that a cutaway forefoot may also add to the problem.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:59   #44
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Sailing at anchor and dealing with current are two different problems. You basically aren't going to solve tbe current against uthe wind at anchor problem unless you are willing to put out an upstream and downstream anchor. Current velocity and direction is continually changing as is wind.

Sailing around your anchor occurs with all boats and as has been noted seems to be precieved as yours is worse than the others in the anchorage. As Jim mentioned the amount of windage upfront has a lot of effect. Two loosely rolled headsails makes for decent forward drive in the wind.
Yes … my boat does not sail around much on its anchor. I guess I’m one of the few who knows other boats are far more flighty on the hook; sometimes to the point where I wonder how people live with it.

My issue with strong current is different. Here we are basically driving forward due to our full keel creating lift, just like a sail. I think the only solution for this would be some sort of stern anchor, or perhaps anchoring from the stern.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:05   #45
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Re: Sailing at Anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
One thing I've noticed is that when we have the boat stripped for upcoming storms, ie both furling sails out of the foretriangle, she sails much less at anchor. Thus, I believe that windage forward is a big contributor to the problem. Boats with multiple furling sails and high freeboard suffer from this issue.

Jim

Dinghies on the foredeck are another big culprit. Like a riding sail at the wrong end.
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