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Old 02-08-2013, 12:02   #376
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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Originally Posted by Thumbs Up View Post
1. The OP's main was "slamming back and forth", he is lucky he didn't take the rig down with his accidental gybes
2. Neither paper nor electronic charts are much help getting through the reefs into an anchorage in Roatan, you need a cruising guide because Roatan is poorly charted.
3.The only real danger he was in was due to his proximity to Roatan, but that is not where he was headed, he was headed to Cabo Tres Puntas and if he had made it there he would have easily gotten assistance from a shrimper, or the Guatemalan navy.
4.Or he could have sailed for Puerto Cortes.
5. He never actually lost his instruments, he was using his SSB to call for help.
6.Too many people have suggested here that they would have sailed the last 18 miles to Roatan. This would have been the worst possible choice. You would be much safer by bearing away from land. Roatan has good anchorages all the way around the island but every one of them requires a pass through the reef, none of which are shown on the charts. It is wrong to assume that just because you are in proximity to land, you can head there and find safety. It is actually just the opposite. If he had headed for Roatan that night, his boat would have still ended up on a reef.
7. Delfin, I really like your quote about walking a mile in a man's shoes

I did say that the best plan might be sailing away from land. Local knowledge is really important, but you also have to be prepared to sail an extra day -- or two -- or three -- or four. That's where open water and heaving to can buy you some rest.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:11   #377
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

He had a huge choice of landfalls less than 150 miles away...

My only explanation is fatigue or fear....everything else was easily within a reasonable sailor's grasp.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:21   #378
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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Originally Posted by Syserenity View Post
Just to finish this Forum episode for me. I thought this was a place to learn and exhange and I thought also, people might interested to listen to people going out. I was wrong. I guess most of you spend to much time making briketts crom a fallen tree. So, I better stick up a beer at the bar of the real Marina. The Administrator of this Forum can take off my membership. I don't need and want to be member of a Forum of this character.

Its every forum.
Forums in general attract this type of personality.
You did a silly thing.
Your boat kept sailing just fine without you.
It happens too much.
I have adapted a policy for our sailing adventures;
when your stepping up, from the yacht to the life-raft,
that is the only time to leave your yacht.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:26   #379
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pirate Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
Your choices were between risking your boat in a collision during rescue, or sticking to your plan. Clearly, choosing was not easy to do.

I am talking about circumstances where the choices are not so stark, and I have not suggested anyone should 'give up' the ship.

Think. Consider the consequences, probability of success and failure. Then, and only then - decide.

Think again, then follow through.

It is not a case of your right I'm wrong, or visa versa.
No... its allowing yourself to be dominated by a situation where you lose control of logic... the easy out is not often the wisest... people have lost loved ones and friends doing that... only to find their boat still floating after the funerals...
I recognise fear can be debilitating to many who live in the cocoon of civilisation where help is just 3 numbers away and responsibility can be offloaded... and... if it goes to **** you can blame some one else... if they'd responded faster.. blah blah... and life goes on...
But then... come to think about it... I'm a Sociopath... so not normal
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:27   #380
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Alerting others for the purpose of requesting assistance was not the problem. Obtaining assistance of the type he required was the problem. The Honduran government allegedly lacked resources necessary to tow his boat to safety.
He said he abandoned his vessel with working main because he feared being unable to summon help later without ships power. He did not leave when he did because he feared imminent danger. He feared being unable to summon help. That is a valid fear and an EPIRB plus self powered VHF would be a comfort.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:31   #381
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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No... its allowing yourself to be dominated by a situation where you lose control of logic... the easy out is not often the wisest... people have lost loved ones and friends doing that... only to find their boat still floating after the funerals...
I recognise fear can be debilitating to many who live in the cocoon of civilisation where help is just 3 numbers away and responsibility can be offloaded... and... if it goes to **** you can blame some one else... if they'd responded faster.. blah blah... and life goes on...
But then... come to think about it... I'm a Sociopath... so not normal
Thinking does not involve "lose(ing) control of logic". Quite the opposite. Nor have I suggested a decision to do one thing or the other involves choosing the easiest path.

Have you considered seeking help?
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:38   #382
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Some people suggested sailing back under mainsail only.

I don't know about other boats, but my boat even with a _new_ mainsail barely crawls (if any) without a headsail up. Headsail is for driving and mainsail for balance..
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:40   #383
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
He said he abandoned his vessel with working main because he feared being unable to summon help later without ships power. He did not leave when he did because he feared imminent danger. He feared being unable to summon help. That is a valid fear and an EPIRB plus self powered VHF would be a comfort.
That is a valid point, and indeed a good question as to whether pushing an EPIRB button would have generated a different SAR response due to the request for help having come to the locals from a different source than OP.

In any event, with all deference to Boatman and the Sociopathic end of Seamanship - everyone has a mental (as well as a physical) breaking point, but well before that comes the dumb assed decision point!........where those points are will vary for each and very likely will be related to experience and knowledge (not the same thing - the former does not guarantee the latter!).

I sincerely hope that OP can learn from his experiences (he paid enough for the learning opportunity), but I accept that it likely is too early for him to fully reflect. On the upside jumping ship onto a freighter did not do "our" Ronnie Simpson (one man and a dream) any long lasting harm, and he ended up on a slow boat to China (literally!).


Disclaimer:-

All posts are IMO and are not intended to offend anyone by suggesting that they have any personal responsibility. Nor am I suggesting that actions (or inactions) can ever lead to bad consequences.

If you are easily offend or confused please do not read the content, and if you do please seek counselling and send me the bill. It might not be paid, but send it to me anyway. C/o Boatman Phil, in Portugal.

This disclaimer will be added to as events dictate (apologies to anyone offended by that. and a hug ).
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:41   #384
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
He said he abandoned his vessel with working main because he feared being unable to summon help later without ships power. He did not leave when he did because he feared imminent danger. He feared being unable to summon help. That is a valid fear and an EPIRB plus self powered VHF would be a comfort.
I may have overlooked a comment about whether or not he carried an EPIRB. And since he was discouraged and left the thread (possibly Cruisers Forum - which at some times is easy to understand. Done it myself at least a dozen times.) we can't ask if one was aboard. Don't recall a definitive statement regarding whether or not he had a VHF capable of operating independent of the boats electrical system either. But, based upon his statement we can safely assume he did not have one.

I wholeheartedly agree that concern about being able to summons help is a valid cause for concern - any time. But this concern is best considered by all of us well in advance of casting off the lines.

In any case, I agree with the consensus. Leaving his boat was probably unnecessary and a poor choice.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:49   #385
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pirate Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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Thinking does not involve "lose(ing) control of logic". Quite the opposite. Nor have I suggested a decision to do one thing or the other involves choosing the easiest path.

Have you considered seeking help?
So far you aint suggest much actually... apart from reason not to try.... as for help...
On a boat... No
Which bit did you not understand... or put it this way... you sail your way and I'll sail mine..
And... we can each reserve the right to think the others a 'Dick'
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:53   #386
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Boatman 61 wrote,
" fear can be debilitating to many !" Absolutely so. And people differ in styles of handling fear. My style is to own up to the fear to myself, and then try to manage the situation. But that style is only one of many, including the throwing up the hands and screaming for help one. I have no real data to back this up, but I do think that the subtle training people get to let other people make decisions for them, and not take personal responsibility for outcomes is a pervasive and deleterious part of our society. ...and it ill fits its members to cross oceans, because they make terrible assumptions, like driving a boat is no different from driving a car, and the GPS'll tell me how to get there; or how about the "they'll rescue me" assumption...

How unreal can you get? They'll rescue you if you can ask, if the rescue guys are there, if there's fuel for their boat and if it's in good nick, if they don't kill you in the process, or your boat crush you, if they could find you in time--I'm sure you can think of more ifs. Too many possible failure modes. So today's new cruisers have unrealistic expectations. And taking a few lessons just doesn't teach them what a sailing apprenticeship would have. Which is why the advice to work your way up in boat size is around. Smaller boats teach you faster.

It is actually more unsafe for cruisers starting out today than for us who started before SatNav, because they trust electronics and underrate the effects of chance events, because they have too many dollars, and not even rudimentary mechanical ability accompanied by little desire to learn, and big egos, little experience. Someone can be quite competent, own his or her own business, manage employess, make profits, and still be ill equipped to skipper his/her own vessel. Different skill sets are required.

It is not from a desire to condemn Mr. Serenity that I write all this, but because it's such a waste, was all preventable, and is ever more common. What a shame!

Ann

PS, in re-reading this, I did not mean that real rescues can not happen. I think a number of SAR outfits do amazing and wonderful rescues. It is just that rescue really isn't as cut and dried as some people seem to believe, especially when there is a violent sea state.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:53   #387
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

100% pilot error....
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:55   #388
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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So far you aint suggest much actually... apart from reason not to try.... as for help...
On a boat... No
Which bit did you not understand... or put it this way... you sail your way and I'll sail mine..
And... we can each reserve the right to think the others a 'Dick'


Hmmmm Keep moving, nothing happening here.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:59   #389
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Hiya Boatman! ...it's not easy being a dick...

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Going to behave now!
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Old 02-08-2013, 13:00   #390
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Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

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Some people suggested sailing back under mainsail only.

I don't know about other boats, but my boat even with a _new_ mainsail barely crawls (if any) without a headsail up. Headsail is for driving and mainsail for balance..
Yep, you are right: you don't know about other boats, so let's disregard your statement as far as this situation goes.

FYI, many boats sail quite well on main alone. Fractional rigged boats (as I believe this Hunter to be, but am not sure) are often in this category. The balance may not be optimum, but most will make decent progress sans jib.

Cheers,

Jim
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