More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

How does one talk about experiences with international laws/ borders / authorities / laws, all made by politicians, and not talk about politics?

Let’s talk about that chicken sandwich, but leave the poultry talk at home.

It is actually very easy. The international laws/ borders / authorities / laws are already in place so there is nothing to discuss there. What is open to discuss is a the way a cruiser wishes to interact with those international laws/ borders / authorities / laws etc. What should their behaviour be, is it appropriate, does it have ramifications and so and so forth.

To use your example, how did you enjoy your sandwich, was it too your liking, was there too much salt on it, should there be some salad in it. Does the salad make the sandwich more enjoyable. It is nourishing? Was it stale. What bread was used?

I'm sure you get the idea!

Maybe some folk need some training but it isn't hard to have an enjoyable, entertaining, challenging conversation with friends and strangers without using the P (or R) words. Just leave those words at the doorstep when you enter into the conversation and pick them up again when you leave. They will be safe and in the same condition as when you put them down on the conversation doorstep.

This way we can live alongside each other nicely ands maybe learn something about the way the whole world works.

And of course, if you wish to do otherwise, there are places to go that welcome the P approach.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Some people defended them, on various grounds, and others scorned them. Even others said that the rules were stupid or some such thing.

You forgot to mention those in question also popped by to tell us we had it all wrong and to tune in next week to find out why.

[JPA Cate]

We did have a discussion about millenials using crowdfunding to support their cruising, here: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-198301.html There are a number of people who are long time cruisers who take a dim view of crowd funding. Blogging, not so much. It is entertainment for a number of people. The discussion there explains the biases of people who have been cruising longer than most.

Let's try and get this thread back on track, and leave the political posturing out.

Let us wait and see what credible sources have to say about the guys in the Sollies, and in Fiji, and how the countries are handling the mistakes the cruisers make.

Ann

[boatman61]

When I was in Nuku Hiva I got friendly with the guy who owns the 'eatery' on the quay and is one of the local leading lights. After lunch one day while a jam session on ukuleles and song was happening and I asked him where/what he did on holiday he just said same old, same old.. I asked had he never wanted to visit Paris or anything his reply was.. "Why go to a **** hole when I live in Paradise.. I want fruit as I walk down the street I pluck it from a tree, I want fish I catch them from the sea.. I want meat I get my horse, gun and dogs and go into the hills for wild pig or goat.. the white mans world offers nothing".
Stick that in your superior asses and swivel..

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Wotname

It is actually very easy. The international laws/ borders / authorities / laws are already in place so there is nothing to discuss there. What is open to discuss is a the way a cruiser wishes to interact with those international laws/ borders / authorities / laws etc. What should their behaviour be, is it appropriate, does it have ramifications and so and so forth.

To use your example, how did you enjoy your sandwich, was it too your liking, was there too much salt on it, should there be some salad in it. Does the salad make the sandwich more enjoyable. It is nourishing? Was it stale. What bread was used?

I'm sure you get the idea!

Maybe some folk need some training but it isn't hard to have an enjoyable, entertaining, challenging conversation with friends and strangers without using the P (or R) words. Just leave those words at the doorstep when you enter into the conversation and pick them up again when you leave. They will be safe and in the same condition as when you put them down on the conversation doorstep.

This way we can live alongside each other nicely ands maybe learn something about the way the whole world works.

And of course, if you wish to do otherwise, there are places to go that welcome the P approach.

Walking on egg shells is not a good sign of free expression of thought.

When it comes to all things, I err on the side of more voices vs silence, we are all big boys and girls and can respond or just keep scrolling, be it advice we don’t agree with on our choice of what product to protect a teak hatch, or our experiences with a foreign port.

“getting political”
Funny thing about that; I mentioned how the youtubers didn’t break the rules per the officials own statement, and mentioned the ownership of that reef also wasn’t 100%. clear ...and got a demerit point. How silly

Take the start of this topic,, calling a vessel out by name for some public mud dragging, another person points out said vessel has a public tracking site, to verify the where and when, only to have the OP say he...wasn’t that interested.

It would be nice if sailors could all just get along, have a spirited debate over things, without the need to try to punish others who have a different opinion, alas I doubt that will happen and I’ll probably even get punished for mentioning it

[OloteleMtn]

Yes, because we cannot talk about (................) here, and certain viewpoints are more equal than others ("Animal Farm") reference for the younger non reading sort)

[Jim Cate]

Walking on egg shells is not a good sign of free expression of thought.

Unfortunately for you, there is no "free expression of thought" on CF. CF isn't a democracy, it is a privately owned and operated entity and has internal rules which govern behavior on the site. You and all other members agreed to follow those rules when you applied for membership. Very likely you didn't read them, but you might consider doing so now if you did not, for it makes following them easier.

Politicizing threads is not welcomed or permitted. We do our best to maintain a civil arena and to enforce the rules. It is sometimes a trying occupation.

Jim

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Unfortunately for you, there is no "free expression of thought" on CF. CF isn't a democracy, it is a privately owned and operated entity and has internal rules which govern behavior on the site. You and all other members agreed to follow those rules when you applied for membership. Very likely you didn't read them, but you might consider doing so now if you did not, for it makes following them easier.

Politicizing threads is not welcomed or permitted. We do our best to maintain a civil arena and to enforce the rules. It is sometimes a trying occupation.

Jim

I have.

It’s interesting what gets called “political” and what doesn’t, it seems like there is a political leaning trend on that front, but whatever.

[jstrru402]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Somehow you make the jump of logic that they must be "progressive" liberals which means obviously they don't believe in borders because we all know that folks of that ilk believe in open borders so therefore they are bashing the USA?

And then you bring up BLM and "white guilt" and diseases from half a millenium ago...and that's after determining that they probably skew towards pink hair, rainbows and butterflies

not sure how many of the posts you've read, but as stated before, everything ive brought up is what other posters, who described themselves as "progressive" sailors, have already said. I haven't even brought up the thinly veiled insults at the US president.

I will admit I tried BLM into it, but only because (again) other posters brought up the "typical" American. prejudice going hand in hand with the BLM message.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

Walking on egg shells is not a good sign of free expression of thought...

It would be nice if sailors could all just get along, have a spirited debate over things, without the need to try to punish others who have a different opinion, alas I doubt that will happen and I’ll probably even get punished for mentioning it

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

Yes, because we cannot talk about (................) here, and certain viewpoints are more equal than others ("Animal Farm") reference for the younger non reading sort)

Oh stop whining.

You see, fellas, you don't want to just express your opinions. When several people pile onto you for what they feel are your excessive defenses of the Zataras, and maybe too forcefully they hold out against your points of view, you then resort to political whining and have your feelings hurt when you're told this is not the place for political discussions.

Its not your different opinons or viewpoints which get you into trouble with this crowd. It's when you begin to attribute the resistance of others to what you assume are their own incorrect political views that you cross the line. If you decide that anyone who argues aganst you is a "progressive" and then you rail against all progressives and dredge up common political memes about them, then you'll find what feel what real "piling on" is going to be like and the moderators will shut you down. Just don't go there.

So now you feel like you are surrounded by folks with pitchforks. You are. Your views are unpopular here. So What? You are entitled to them. State your opinions without bringing your accusers' supposed political leanings into it or the supposed failings and weakness of all people who feel that way, and then shut up before the crowd stabs you.

[El Pinguino]

What on earth do politics have to do with the rights of a sovereign state - such as Fiji or New Zealand - to do everything within its power to safeguard the health of its people during a pandemic?

People play fast and loose with the rules they will get called out for it...

People going to sea in unsound vessels and/or navigating in an unsound manner - as apolitical a behaviour as any I can think of.... stick around and see what happens to them on CF.... RH comes to mind ...

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jstrru402

not sure how many of the posts you've read, but as stated before, everything ive brought up is what other posters, who described themselves as "progressive" sailors, have already said.

You seem obsessed by "self obsessed progressives". (if not delusional)

Please tell us who these self-described "progressive" sailors. There are certainly none in this thread.

You are the only poster to have used the word as a descriptive.

The first use of the word was by you in post #229.

" I do not think the demographic of their viewers is progressive sailboat owners and want to be sailors,"

Then again in Post #262 where you used the expression "bunch of self-described "progressive" sailors on here"
and
"it could only be imagined as to what a "progressive" sailor is, but it probably skews more towards pink hair, rainbows and butterflies."
and
"it wouldn't be too unreasonable to believe that these same "progressive" cruisers would fall in lockstep with the whole BLM movement"
and
"but every single one of them is something a "progressive" sailor has already cited as a concern previously in this thread."

Then Post #266
"but like I said, everything I mentioned was previously brought up by self-described "progressive" sailors."

In fact the only other poster to use the word progressive at all was Wingsail in post #272 when rebutting your earlier statements