Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-07-2020, 08:40   #136
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Ah, I wax sentimental. Remember in days long gone by where the natives on unwelcoming shores would just throw your sorry arse on the barbecue? Solved a lot of problems with seafarers gone wrong.

I don’t know the skipper of Zatara. But I do know something of the mind set of “it’s easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.” Especially in the business world it is an often used strategm.

Covid is decimating my country. It seems to get worse by the week. Why cruisers can’t hunker down and observe countries laws is beyond me. The last thing I would want to do is harm anyone or expose my loved ones by this novel virus. No one has immunity... anywhere.

No matter how you want to interpret written communications are radio transmissions at 12 miles .... he knew he was forbidden to enter long before he left. His track reveals he went directly where he was told not to go. IMO he tried to pull a slick one. Why would you try to do this at this time when the whole planet is trying to get by this very unusual virus? I won’t say how disappointed I am in his recklessness. It is amazing what his kids are learning. They see everything and they hear everything. If you think kids can’t put two and two together... you don’t know nothing about kids. They are way smarter than you think. I guarantee you they know what pops pulled off.
alansmith is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 09:14   #137
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Remember poor old Captain Cook? Was he not eaten in the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii)? Now there is some irony for you. You were eaten in the sandwich islands with your name being Cook. Whew. God does have a sense of humor.
It was written that it was a great honor to be proportioned a piece of him.

Therefore I am recommending a new International Law to be applied that we allow all wayward seafarers be chummed, dismembered, BBQ’d, marinated, parboiled, roasted, smoked, or boiled if found in any area of the world where they were told expressly not to go. No questions asked.. in you go. The old ways were the true ways. There was no room for interpretation. There were no unions or political gerrymandering involved. You cheated the system... “excuse me but I like my rump roast well done!”

Remember the American kid who was killed via arrows several years ago by natives who clearly indicated his approach was not welcomed? He got the point I tell you. I really have admiration for the old ways. There was no interpretations necessary. You break the law and we make BBQ ribs out of you.
alansmith is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 15:37   #138
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
Remember poor old Captain Cook? Was he not eaten in the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii)? .

Yes, he was not eaten.
StuM is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 15:53   #139
Registered User
 
OloteleMtn's Avatar

Join Date: May 2020
Location: Pago Pago
Boat: Lancer 36
Posts: 265
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
Remember poor old Captain Cook? Was he not eaten in the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii)? Now there is some irony for you. You were eaten in the sandwich islands with your name being Cook. Whew. God does have a sense of humor.
It was written that it was a great honor to be proportioned a piece of him.

Therefore I am recommending a new International Law to be applied that we allow all wayward seafarers be chummed, dismembered, BBQ’d, marinated, parboiled, roasted, smoked, or boiled if found in any area of the world where they were told expressly not to go. No questions asked.. in you go. The old ways were the true ways. There was no room for interpretation. There were no unions or political gerrymandering involved. You cheated the system... “excuse me but I like my rump roast well done!”

Remember the American kid who was killed via arrows several years ago by natives who clearly indicated his approach was not welcomed? He got the point I tell you. I really have admiration for the old ways. There was no interpretations necessary. You break the law and we make BBQ ribs out of you.
Please accept my firm declination of any potential meal invitations at your place, ever. This kind of rhetoric should have no place here.
OloteleMtn is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 18:51   #140
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Oletel, if I offended thee, please excuse my barbs as being only sarcasm meant to lighten ones mood. If I have further depressed yours then I offer my most abject apologies. Perhaps you have never lived in a regime state where people disappear, kidnapped and never been seen again, or executed for said crimes, real or imagined, against the state. Perhaps you are a younger man and still need some of life’s seasoning to be able to see both sides of every story.

But in total naked honesty... the old ways were brutal and without much discussion. You stole a horse.. caught and hung. Cheat at the card table with the wrong dude... you got shot.

My wife has been stuck in China for six months due to Covid, travel restrictions, quarantine, and very old parents. China now has launched a massive gag order on Hong Kong. They can enter your apartment without a warrant. They can arrest you for anything posted on ANY social platform like Weibo, Facebook, QQ, Telegraph, Twitter, What’s app, etc that is critical of the CCP. That came down as a result of the prolonged and very destructive demonstrations over the previous year. Hundreds of Hong King residents arrested in the last week. In China if you are arrested you have no legal counsel to represent you. The CCP’s win/loss ratio is over 99% percent. Smoke in that one for awhile.

So, when I see a slick deal being pulled like this skipper did I think how lame we are in Western countries in enforcement of laws. If there were more clear cut penalties I think wayward souls would understand that it is a risk mitigation issue and not do stupid things. With tongue and cheek I wrote the previous posts. If it was not to your liking I can understand that you didn’t understand it was just humor that doesn’t appeal to you. That is okay with me. Have a good and try and not get too depressed. Be happy. Don’t worry. Be happy. Don’t worry.
alansmith is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 18:54   #141
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Oh, Oteleo, I forget to accept your declination to eat at my place. Pago Pago is a long way from here so I know you are just funnin me. But if our wakes cross someday... let’s crack open a couple of beers and just talk like men do and not allow thin skinned rhetoric to tarnish a budding friendship. I am a hell of a cook.
alansmith is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 19:31   #142
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 2,845
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Yes, he was not eaten.
Don't think we can be sure if he was or wasn't, or if he was, by who or what.

According to eyewitness reports, he certainly wasn't killed to be eaten, but that's not to say what happened to the 'flesh' after "the body was disembowelled, baked to facilitate removal of the flesh, and the bones were carefully cleaned for preservation as religious icons."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnap...#Death_of_Cook

Polynesia is included in the list of known societies that practiced cannibalism.

Among modern humans, cannibalism has been practiced by various groups.] It was practiced by humans in Prehistoric Europe, Mesoamerica South America, among Iroquoian peoples in North America, Māori in New Zealand, the Solomon Islands, parts of West Africa and Central Africa, some of the islands of Polynesia, New Guinea, Sumatra, and Fiji. Evidence of cannibalism has been found in ruins associated with the Ancestral Puebloans of the Southwestern United States as well as (at Cowboy Wash in Colorado).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cannibalism



Could have been human, fish or worm food.
jimbunyard is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 19:47   #143
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 564
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Which bit of NZ has an average temp hovering around 50º F.. and when??
All of the bits My Googling skills told me that the average temperature for all of New Zealand is 46-54 during the month of July. I was born on that big rock next to NZ so I don't have first hand experience. Maybe it's a "dry" cold ...
NPCampbell is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 19:53   #144
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in Montt.
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,180
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPCampbell View Post
All of the bits My Googling skills told me that the average temperature for all of New Zealand is 46-54 during the month of July. I was born on that big rock next to NZ so I don't have first hand experience. Maybe it's a "dry" cold ...
Top end of NZ enjoys a daytime average in the mid teens ºC in July which is pleasant enough for me.

Night time average minimums about 8ºC.... thats why they introduced swedish mattress improvers.....

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...rikeri/climate
__________________
A little bit about Chile can be found here https://www.docdroid.net/bO63FbL/202...anchorages-pdf
El Pinguino is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 19:56   #145
Registered User
 
OloteleMtn's Avatar

Join Date: May 2020
Location: Pago Pago
Boat: Lancer 36
Posts: 265
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Alan, i am nearing my 6th decade on the planet; haved lived in various other countries and served in wartime, and live about 3 airmiles from the last known well publicised incident of cannibalism here in American Samoa. I am just not amused by cannibalism, and i have personal first hand knowledge of the effects of the breakdown of the rule of law.
Before you go rooting for capricious justice, let us learn all the relevant facts before we form a figurative and literal lynch mob, shall we?
OloteleMtn is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 20:36   #146
Registered User
 
wingssail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On Vessel WINGS, wherever there's an ocean, currently in Mexico
Boat: Serendipity 43
Posts: 5,508
Send a message via AIM to wingssail Send a message via Skype™ to wingssail
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Quote:
Originally Posted by OloteleMtn View Post
...Before you go rooting for capricious justice, let us learn all the relevant facts before we form a figurative and literal lynch mob, shall we?
OtoteleMtn, The relevant facts are staring you in the face. They have been aptly revealed by Zatara's video posts, his social media posts, the words of the Tongan officials and his tracks across the ocean, first to Tonga where he was told not to go and then to Fiji, where he had not fulfilled the entry requirements. There is actually more, but it's been previously repeated endlessly in this thread, and I'm not really interested in running it in front of you again.

But the point I would like to make is when someone tells me, "let us learn all the relevant facts before we..." it usually is a stalling tactic. Like, don't enter into the discussion in an honest way, just brush it under the carpet and maybe everyone will forget about it after some time has passed.
__________________
These lines upon my face tell you the story of who I am but these stories don't mean anything
when you've got no one to tell them to Fred Roswold Wings https://wingssail.blogspot.com/
wingssail is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 21:44   #147
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 564
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
OtoteleMtn, The relevant facts are staring you in the face. They have been aptly revealed by Zatara's video posts, his social media posts, the words of the Tongan officials and his tracks across the ocean, first to Tonga where he was told not to go and then to Fiji, where he had not fulfilled the entry requirements.
This would be opinion or a wild a** guess. No one has any information, other than anecdotal, on the discussions or arrangements that may have taken place between Zatara and Fijian customs. If you read the Fiji Immigration Page you'll see several different ways of gaining admittance (which have changed several times over the past few days) including a reference that "Any boat coming to Fiji will be carefully considered on a case-by-case basis". In the absence of facts, I'm going to give them the benefit of doubt and assume they used a proper method that was acceptable to Fijian immigration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
But the point I would like to make is when someone tells me, "let us learn all the relevant facts before we..." it usually is a stalling tactic.
Ya, make sure you start denigrating people before all those pesky facts get in the way!
NPCampbell is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 22:48   #148
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in Montt.
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,180
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

At the time of this post there would appear to be at least four 'pleasure vessels' flying code flag 'Lima' and at quarantine anchorage off Denarau and as yet unable to come alongside....

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/dat..._port_in=23192
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	denarau.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	54.2 KB
ID:	219314   Click image for larger version

Name:	Zatara.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	64.7 KB
ID:	219315  

__________________
A little bit about Chile can be found here https://www.docdroid.net/bO63FbL/202...anchorages-pdf
El Pinguino is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2020, 23:00   #149
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 500
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

hmm.

Mystery as Argentine sailors infected with virus after 35 days at sea.


https://flip.it/GaS130
B23iL23 is offline   Reply
Old 14-07-2020, 00:01   #150
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 500
Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

So here in Ireland we have a mandatory 14 quarantine. You fill in a legal doc on landing and state where you will be etc. So a plane from Texas lands at the weekend with 40 passengers and have to do their 14 day stint. A day later a restaurant checks with a customer (from Texas) where they are from ,did they do the 14 days etc. The tourist was kicked out of the restaurant and reported and now faces 14 days, a court appearance, fines and a possible 6 month stay in prison. Then probably deported and never allowed back in again.

Rules are rules and we need to respect each countries version of the rules. Now I don't know if Zatara did anything wrong or illegal and I don't have a high regard for it's skipper based on his past - However, if he didn't do anything illegal let him on his way. If he did, then prosecute him fully under the law and punish him so that others don't go down the same path.
B23iL23 is offline   Reply
Closed Thread

Tags
cruise, cruiser

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing Zatara causing some Pacific ripples nzmal Seamanship & Boat Handling 145 06-07-2020 23:33
Shoal keel on Beneteau 55; Sailing Zatara? KeepInTune Monohull Sailboats 5 05-08-2018 19:02

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.