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13-07-2020, 08:40
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#136
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Ah, I wax sentimental. Remember in days long gone by where the natives on unwelcoming shores would just throw your sorry arse on the barbecue? Solved a lot of problems with seafarers gone wrong.
I don’t know the skipper of Zatara. But I do know something of the mind set of “it’s easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.” Especially in the business world it is an often used strategm.
Covid is decimating my country. It seems to get worse by the week. Why cruisers can’t hunker down and observe countries laws is beyond me. The last thing I would want to do is harm anyone or expose my loved ones by this novel virus. No one has immunity... anywhere.
No matter how you want to interpret written communications are radio transmissions at 12 miles .... he knew he was forbidden to enter long before he left. His track reveals he went directly where he was told not to go. IMO he tried to pull a slick one. Why would you try to do this at this time when the whole planet is trying to get by this very unusual virus? I won’t say how disappointed I am in his recklessness. It is amazing what his kids are learning. They see everything and they hear everything. If you think kids can’t put two and two together... you don’t know nothing about kids. They are way smarter than you think. I guarantee you they know what pops pulled off.
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13-07-2020, 09:14
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#137
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Remember poor old Captain Cook? Was he not eaten in the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii)? Now there is some irony for you. You were eaten in the sandwich islands with your name being Cook. Whew. God does have a sense of humor.
It was written that it was a great honor to be proportioned a piece of him.
Therefore I am recommending a new International Law to be applied that we allow all wayward seafarers be chummed, dismembered, BBQ’d, marinated, parboiled, roasted, smoked, or boiled if found in any area of the world where they were told expressly not to go. No questions asked.. in you go. The old ways were the true ways. There was no room for interpretation. There were no unions or political gerrymandering involved. You cheated the system... “excuse me but I like my rump roast well done!”
Remember the American kid who was killed via arrows several years ago by natives who clearly indicated his approach was not welcomed? He got the point I tell you. I really have admiration for the old ways. There was no interpretations necessary. You break the law and we make BBQ ribs out of you.
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13-07-2020, 15:37
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#138
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmith
Remember poor old Captain Cook? Was he not eaten in the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii)? .
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Yes, he was not eaten.
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13-07-2020, 15:53
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#139
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Pago Pago
Boat: Lancer 36
Posts: 265
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmith
Remember poor old Captain Cook? Was he not eaten in the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii)? Now there is some irony for you. You were eaten in the sandwich islands with your name being Cook. Whew. God does have a sense of humor.
It was written that it was a great honor to be proportioned a piece of him.
Therefore I am recommending a new International Law to be applied that we allow all wayward seafarers be chummed, dismembered, BBQ’d, marinated, parboiled, roasted, smoked, or boiled if found in any area of the world where they were told expressly not to go. No questions asked.. in you go. The old ways were the true ways. There was no room for interpretation. There were no unions or political gerrymandering involved. You cheated the system... “excuse me but I like my rump roast well done!”
Remember the American kid who was killed via arrows several years ago by natives who clearly indicated his approach was not welcomed? He got the point I tell you. I really have admiration for the old ways. There was no interpretations necessary. You break the law and we make BBQ ribs out of you.
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Please accept my firm declination of any potential meal invitations at your place, ever. This kind of rhetoric should have no place here.
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13-07-2020, 18:51
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#140
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Oletel, if I offended thee, please excuse my barbs as being only sarcasm meant to lighten ones mood. If I have further depressed yours then I offer my most abject apologies. Perhaps you have never lived in a regime state where people disappear, kidnapped and never been seen again, or executed for said crimes, real or imagined, against the state. Perhaps you are a younger man and still need some of life’s seasoning to be able to see both sides of every story.
But in total naked honesty... the old ways were brutal and without much discussion. You stole a horse.. caught and hung. Cheat at the card table with the wrong dude... you got shot.
My wife has been stuck in China for six months due to Covid, travel restrictions, quarantine, and very old parents. China now has launched a massive gag order on Hong Kong. They can enter your apartment without a warrant. They can arrest you for anything posted on ANY social platform like Weibo, Facebook, QQ, Telegraph, Twitter, What’s app, etc that is critical of the CCP. That came down as a result of the prolonged and very destructive demonstrations over the previous year. Hundreds of Hong King residents arrested in the last week. In China if you are arrested you have no legal counsel to represent you. The CCP’s win/loss ratio is over 99% percent. Smoke in that one for awhile.
So, when I see a slick deal being pulled like this skipper did I think how lame we are in Western countries in enforcement of laws. If there were more clear cut penalties I think wayward souls would understand that it is a risk mitigation issue and not do stupid things. With tongue and cheek I wrote the previous posts. If it was not to your liking I can understand that you didn’t understand it was just humor that doesn’t appeal to you. That is okay with me. Have a good and try and not get too depressed. Be happy. Don’t worry. Be happy. Don’t worry.
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13-07-2020, 18:54
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#141
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Oh, Oteleo, I forget to accept your declination to eat at my place. Pago Pago is a long way from here so I know you are just funnin me. But if our wakes cross someday... let’s crack open a couple of beers and just talk like men do and not allow thin skinned rhetoric to tarnish a budding friendship. I am a hell of a cook.
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13-07-2020, 19:31
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#142
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 2,845
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
Yes, he was not eaten.
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Don't think we can be sure if he was or wasn't, or if he was, by who or what.
According to eyewitness reports, he certainly wasn't killed to be eaten, but that's not to say what happened to the 'flesh' after "the body was disembowelled, baked to facilitate removal of the flesh, and the bones were carefully cleaned for preservation as religious icons."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnap...#Death_of_Cook
Polynesia is included in the list of known societies that practiced cannibalism.
Among modern humans, cannibalism has been practiced by various groups.] It was practiced by humans in Prehistoric Europe, Mesoamerica South America, among Iroquoian peoples in North America, Māori in New Zealand, the Solomon Islands, parts of West Africa and Central Africa, some of the islands of Polynesia, New Guinea, Sumatra, and Fiji. Evidence of cannibalism has been found in ruins associated with the Ancestral Puebloans of the Southwestern United States as well as (at Cowboy Wash in Colorado).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cannibalism
Could have been human, fish or worm food.
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13-07-2020, 19:47
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#143
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 564
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino
Which bit of NZ has an average temp hovering around 50º F.. and when??
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All of the bits My Googling skills told me that the average temperature for all of New Zealand is 46-54 during the month of July. I was born on that big rock next to NZ so I don't have first hand experience. Maybe it's a "dry" cold ...
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13-07-2020, 19:53
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#144
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in Montt.
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,180
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Quote:
Originally Posted by NPCampbell
All of the bits My Googling skills told me that the average temperature for all of New Zealand is 46-54 during the month of July. I was born on that big rock next to NZ so I don't have first hand experience. Maybe it's a "dry" cold ...
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Top end of NZ enjoys a daytime average in the mid teens ºC in July which is pleasant enough for me.
Night time average minimums about 8ºC.... thats why they introduced swedish mattress improvers.....
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...rikeri/climate
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13-07-2020, 19:56
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#145
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Pago Pago
Boat: Lancer 36
Posts: 265
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Alan, i am nearing my 6th decade on the planet; haved lived in various other countries and served in wartime, and live about 3 airmiles from the last known well publicised incident of cannibalism here in American Samoa. I am just not amused by cannibalism, and i have personal first hand knowledge of the effects of the breakdown of the rule of law.
Before you go rooting for capricious justice, let us learn all the relevant facts before we form a figurative and literal lynch mob, shall we?
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13-07-2020, 20:36
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#146
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On Vessel WINGS, wherever there's an ocean, currently in Mexico
Boat: Serendipity 43
Posts: 5,508
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Quote:
Originally Posted by OloteleMtn
...Before you go rooting for capricious justice, let us learn all the relevant facts before we form a figurative and literal lynch mob, shall we?
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OtoteleMtn, The relevant facts are staring you in the face. They have been aptly revealed by Zatara's video posts, his social media posts, the words of the Tongan officials and his tracks across the ocean, first to Tonga where he was told not to go and then to Fiji, where he had not fulfilled the entry requirements. There is actually more, but it's been previously repeated endlessly in this thread, and I'm not really interested in running it in front of you again.
But the point I would like to make is when someone tells me, "let us learn all the relevant facts before we..." it usually is a stalling tactic. Like, don't enter into the discussion in an honest way, just brush it under the carpet and maybe everyone will forget about it after some time has passed.
__________________
These lines upon my face tell you the story of who I am but these stories don't mean anything
when you've got no one to tell them to Fred Roswold Wings https://wingssail.blogspot.com/
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13-07-2020, 21:44
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#147
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 564
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail
OtoteleMtn, The relevant facts are staring you in the face. They have been aptly revealed by Zatara's video posts, his social media posts, the words of the Tongan officials and his tracks across the ocean, first to Tonga where he was told not to go and then to Fiji, where he had not fulfilled the entry requirements.
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This would be opinion or a wild a** guess. No one has any information, other than anecdotal, on the discussions or arrangements that may have taken place between Zatara and Fijian customs. If you read the Fiji Immigration Page you'll see several different ways of gaining admittance (which have changed several times over the past few days) including a reference that "Any boat coming to Fiji will be carefully considered on a case-by-case basis". In the absence of facts, I'm going to give them the benefit of doubt and assume they used a proper method that was acceptable to Fijian immigration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail
But the point I would like to make is when someone tells me, "let us learn all the relevant facts before we..." it usually is a stalling tactic.
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Ya, make sure you start denigrating people before all those pesky facts get in the way!
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13-07-2020, 22:48
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#148
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in Montt.
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,180
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
At the time of this post there would appear to be at least four 'pleasure vessels' flying code flag 'Lima' and at quarantine anchorage off Denarau and as yet unable to come alongside....
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/dat..._port_in=23192
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13-07-2020, 23:00
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#149
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 500
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
hmm.
Mystery as Argentine sailors infected with virus after 35 days at sea.
https://flip.it/GaS130
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14-07-2020, 00:01
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#150
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 500
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Re: More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara
So here in Ireland we have a mandatory 14 quarantine. You fill in a legal doc on landing and state where you will be etc. So a plane from Texas lands at the weekend with 40 passengers and have to do their 14 day stint. A day later a restaurant checks with a customer (from Texas) where they are from ,did they do the 14 days etc. The tourist was kicked out of the restaurant and reported and now faces 14 days, a court appearance, fines and a possible 6 month stay in prison. Then probably deported and never allowed back in again.
Rules are rules and we need to respect each countries version of the rules. Now I don't know if Zatara did anything wrong or illegal and I don't have a high regard for it's skipper based on his past - However, if he didn't do anything illegal let him on his way. If he did, then prosecute him fully under the law and punish him so that others don't go down the same path.
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