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Old 04-03-2018, 20:15   #1
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Millennials and Crowdfunding

This is a thread, probably in the wrong forum, where I'd like to discuss millennials funding their cruising through Patreon, GoFundme, etc.

This has grown out of the the "another keel, another capsize" thread, which was as much about values as the incident. I'd like to avoid poisoning the waters by reducing the discussion to a binary: "those who hate it" and "those who love it".

Here's my take:

Disclosure: I am 32 years old, have lived aboard since 25, and cruised since 28. We fund our sailing through "traditional" work: carpenter/painter and programmer.

We live in a society of spectacle. Some of the best paid people, those we're aware of anyway, are involved in activities we consider recreational. Any professional sportsman, musician or actor/artist is essentially "living the dream". They're getting paid to play a game or otherwise do something most of us would do for free, but aren't talented or lucky enough to get paid for.

The various sailing bloggers, those getting enough to get by, are making a product. I blog for family and friends. They find my blog boring, but it keeps them up on where we are. It takes me 3-4 hours to sort pictures and another 3-4, plus a bottle of wine, to write something halfway worth reading. I don't do videos as I have neither the skill or desire to record my ugly mug on day-to-day sailing. I was mocked by my teenage siblings this Christmas muddling through Adobe Premier. We don't share personal details or try to wax too philosophical online.

By comparison, there are people spilling their guts on youtube. I realize it isn't entirely sincere, but similar to a reality TV show they are: "putting themselves out there". This isn't something for nothing. Most posters on cruisersforum hide behind a username.

In a world where people are paid to pretend on screen (act), play games for children (professional ball players), tell us what to think (any cable news program), why are some of us so upset about people who present themselves as a kind of sailing avatar to live vicariously through? Better them than a Kardashian, right?

Part of my opinion comes from the fact that myself and my partner have no interest or chance of doing the same thing ourselves. We are ugly, boring and proud of it. We have other avenues to make ends meet. Why not let the pretty and charming make a little cash making the rest of us feel better?
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Old 04-03-2018, 20:33   #2
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

Personally I have as much desire to watch the vloggers as I do to watch Big Brother, Survivor etc on TV - i.e. absolutely Zero! I really can't see the appeal.

That said, if there is a market and they want to put in the hours producing effective videos, good on them!.

(If anyone wants to give it a try, just be aware that it is the same as it is for wannabe actors,musicians,artists and professional sportspersons - for every one that makes it big, there are many, many more who make little or nothing for all of their efforts)

That is an entirely different issue to GoFundMe begging.. Especially where the "reason for the request" changes after sveral thousand dollars have been raised.
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Old 04-03-2018, 20:48   #3
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

I would love to have the technical ability, courage, charisma and time to make a successful vlog, but I don't. I enjoy watching the occasional sailing video to learn, as well as to be inspired. I generally don't concern myself if someone is crowdfunding their cruising, as they're not forcing anyone into sponsoring or donating. Seems like a waste of energy worrying about this sort of thing.
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Old 04-03-2018, 21:09   #4
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

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In a world where people are paid to pretend on screen (act), play games for children (professional ball players), tell us what to think (any cable news program), why are some of us so upset about people who present themselves as a kind of sailing avatar to live vicariously through?
Jealousy.
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Old 04-03-2018, 21:22   #5
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

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Jealousy.
You stole my line!
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Old 04-03-2018, 21:32   #6
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

What would be interesting is how many actually make enough money to make it worthwhile blogging and posting videos?
These bloggers are creating a new catergory of cruisers that I call Bubers (boobers). They are the ones that have watched a hundreds of YouTube videos yet have never done any sailing. They then buy a yacht and expect it to be all so easy. Unlike big brother the bloggers are not filming 24/7 so there is plenty of brown stain moments that never make it onto film.
Every time a Buber rings me for a survey I always have a quiet chuckle to myself.
You mention it takes about 7 hours to get a readable post up on your blog. That sounds like a lot of work if you are getting no return except for personal satisfaction.
Maybe it’s my mentality or ugly mug but I would rather do a block of work and get cashed up rather than try and make a living via the internet.
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Old 04-03-2018, 21:41   #7
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

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Why are some of us so upset about people who present themselves as a kind of sailing avatar to live vicariously through?
What I dislike is that almost without exception, vlogs do not show what a sailing life is really like, emphasizing the easy, the comfortable, and not covering the frightening and dangerous, so that what can be seen is deeply misleading for sailors without experience. This tends to encourage the "take a few lessons and I'm a sailor" concept, where we have "graduates" with minimal sailing skills, huge self confidence (diploma with all the rights and privileges pertaining thereto), and zero seamanship. The false notions make it far more dangerous for the newbies who go out and attempt serious voyages; it leads to a great deal of frustration for those who are not good DIYers; and whereas, once you had a reasonable expectation of people understanding stand on vs. burdened to avoid, now experienced sailors need to view each other sailboater as a possibly uninformed one. Given my attitude, it is not a form of entertainment I would seek out, nor pay for.

And yet, my real gripe is with the gofundme, in the another keel lost, another capsize thread was when they changed their goals, and appeared to lose track of the obligated cleanup. It looked dishonest, and if we can believe them, it was not. I am profoundly against dishonesty. I understand the attractiveness of the gofundme, though; however, I'd not support it unless I perceived need there. To me, the people may want the $$, but it's a choice, not a need, in most cases, and to me, that's a different kettle of fish. I might donate to help fund a [legitimate] cleanup, and not for a different boat. Now, I was brought up to value honesty, honor, and privacy (among other values not relevant here), and I think it is my notions relative to privacy than turn me off Patreon or gofundme. Other people feel differently, and they're welcome to give it a go. But it would not be for me, due to the above individually held values, and ymmv.

Ann
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Old 04-03-2018, 21:51   #8
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

say what you will about the Vlogs but coming from a life long power boater the Delos,La Vags, Rick Moore, Ran sailing , Old man,etc caused me to have a paradigm shift in my long term boating plans. It has opened a whole new world to me about sailing.
then there's the down side the couple that can't pay their tab at Wendy's who sunk a boat in an inlet that gets a new boat and actually came out ahead of from sinking a boat with out insurance reallyWTF.
I digress I really enjoy the videos of ARC crossings or any crossing for that matter.
You guys that are hard core sailors may look at me as not fitting into your club but I have nothing but admiration for people who make the jump and have inspired me to do the same.....That said you guys kill me when you are fishing LOL
Probably not the right place to post this opinion. As the Vlogs I mentioned are hardly millennials but I am putting it out there even if I this is the wrong thread , My apologies for diverting the OP original thread.
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Old 04-03-2018, 21:58   #9
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

I watch a few of the sailing YouTube channels. It’s better than the trash on tv these days and I enjoy it particularly on a cold rainy weekend. The one’s I watch are good sailors and know what they are doing. I see too many on YouTube that look inexperienced and in junk boats. I won’t watch those. There was one I saw today “Bought a boat and sailed across the Pacific for $13,000.” They were just very lucky to have made it I suspect. I didn’t bother to watch.
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Old 04-03-2018, 22:02   #10
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

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I watch a few of the sailing YouTube channels. It’s better than the trash on tv these days and I enjoy it particularly on a cold rainy weekend. The one’s I watch are good sailors and know what they are doing. I see too many on YouTube that look inexperienced and in junk boats. I won’t watch those. There was one I saw today “Bought a boat and sailed across the Pacific for $13,000.” They were just very lucky to have made it I suspect. I didn’t bother to watch.
I saw that one too thats pushing the envelope
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:10   #11
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

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We live in a society of spectacle. Some of the best paid people, those we're aware of anyway, are involved in activities we consider recreational...

In a world where people are paid to pretend on screen (act), play games for children (professional ball players), tell us what to think (any cable news program), why are some of us so upset about people who present themselves as a kind of sailing avatar to live vicariously through? Better them than a Kardashian, right?
You are SO right! Personally, I don't follow vlogs and only rarely read blogs. I just don't have the patience to sit through hours of someone else's day. I'm old enough that the hours left to me are more precious than that.

I guess there have always been crowd-funded cruisers. Farley Mowat got an advance from his publisher, on the expectation of good book sales returns.

To me, the difference is that there used to be gatekeepers. Publishers, editors, network newsrooms and journalistic integrity would restrict what was presented to the "crowd." Funding, focus and even beliefs were more grounded in reality.

What's lacking today is any way for the crowd to discern fact from fiction. With every possible point of view and on an equal footing, we're free to choose to believe whatever we find most convenient. We never have to face inconvenient facts, or even nuance.

My hope is that the generations which grow up "native" to the internet will develop their own techniques for cutting through the BS. It would be interesting to see the age spread on who contributed to the GoFundMe page for the recently famous "shipwrecked" couple.
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:27   #12
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

I find the microfunding opportunities made availabe by the internet very interesting. Whether an advertising system like Adsense / Youtube, a subscription based system like Patron, or donations like GoFundMe it really changes the game vs having to do an event to completion and then selling the complete story to a publisher/production company (similiar change happening the music world). Previously you had a very black and white path to success (you either sold yourself/story to a publisher and saw success or you didn't make any money). The ability to self publish (video, books etc) allows for varying degrees of success based on items that you have more control of (for good or bad).

I don't understand the dislike by so many (at least on this forum) for these funding avenues. They are totally voluntary and on an individual basis are low $$ amounts (basically people are giving up a day or two of lattes to fund these). Especially the alternative for a number of these vloggers is to get a go-no-where job at Walmart/Starbucks/HomeDepot or at best some mid level management job pushing papers.



I'm not so concerned with the "it encourages people" aspect. Outside of the micro world of CF and Youtube, there is a lot of negativity from people in the real world against doing anything outside the main stream.
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:48   #13
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

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What I dislike is that almost without exception, vlogs do not show what a sailing life is really like, emphasizing the easy, the comfortable, and not covering the frightening and dangerous, so that what can be seen is deeply misleading for sailors without experience.
Ann
You mean like a gentle night sail that ends up with you steering into the teeth of a gale because the autopilot gave up. There is no coffee because the jar smashed when it fell on the floor after the first big breaking wave and supper was a disaster because the spaghetti pan jumped off the stove and the contents went down the back of the stove into the bilges. Talking of which are now filling up with water rather quickly because the strum box is full of gooey spaghetti.

We did eventually get the coffee stains off the teak and holly floor.

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Old 05-03-2018, 09:10   #14
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Re: Millennials and Crowdfunding

The world is always changing, for good or bad. Go fund me and patreon are tools available today that weren't when I was young.
I, like most, utilized the tools available to me to move my life forward. To make money, raise a family,buy a house, buy a boat. These were my goals.
I don't understand why people get upset over what tools others use to accomplish their goals. They aren't doing anything illegal. They aren't forcing anyone to donate, they aren't hurting anyone.
If you don't find value, don't donate. But why the need to criticize those who do?
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:15   #15
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I must confess a certain respect for the Vloggers.. not that I watch any.. more from the fact I've considered giving it a go.
However where I fall down is getting it together enough to even bother to switch on the Go Cam.. let alone dance in front of it.
My one attempt was a video on cooking at sea after multiple posts by folks living on canned food and rice.. thought I'd show what can be easily done..
Complete disaster.. lousy commentary.. lots of stuttering.. pulled a few jibes from some forum members..
I may still give it a serious go one day.. hell I've spent the dosh so why not..
But.. the reality is, like the Drone I bought that's still in its box.. it'll never happen..
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