Hello All

[BeOur3rd]

so we've made a decision to find a boat that suits us and make it a live-aboard

background:
i am 37, i sailed when i was a boy, went to private school (before my parents lost all their money) and we had a sailing class, in grade 5 i believe. i loved it i was by far the best i was a natural and all my spare time was spent aboard my little 2 seater. later i was 13(we now live in a ghetto no longer a private school kid! hehe), spent my weekends at a friends cottage and i found an old 12 foot cedar strip behind an abandoned cottage and i refurbished it, and it was my pride and joy.

fast-forward, i'm now 37 and i've brought up about 10 times to the girlfriend that i want to live on a sailboat and wander all over the world as we please, she has never been receptive. but recent events made her interested and we've made plans to now buy a boat soon. (within 2 years once our finances are settled, maybe as soon as this coming April)

boundaries:
lets assume we don't have more than 250,000.00-USD to spend on boat and hopefully end up with a bit in the bank before leaving within that amount

goals:
now we ARE doing this, i however don't know half of what i should know so this is why i'm here, i need help.

what kind of boat do i need?

priorities:
i would prefer an aluminium boat (am i wrong in this? why?)
i would prefer the largest boat i can manage with 2 of us as crew
i have a penchant towards catamarans (anyone have preferences and why?)
i am a stingy bastard so i want a cheap boat to travel with(i mean this is our home after this point so we need something thats as cheap as possible)

i was debating a couple of boats:
40' Dufour A 9000
42' palmer johnson
47' meta voyageur
57.7' Reinke
various others.

whats easy to sail? it will be me and the girlfriend no one else, i think once i get a feel for it i will be very good, but she will never be self assured with it, so i need something with very low manpower, but at the same time i am resourceful.



keeping in mind everything i mentioned.
what do you people who've been sailing for years suggest?



1- is it possible to have plants on deck? or will the salt kill them? curious
2- is an aluminium boat going to be hot to the touch? when im traveling? i imagine im barefoot, is that fine?
3- ive never sailed the ocean, what regulations are there? rules? can anyone guide me towards some culmination of them?
4- maintenance what sort of time frame do you get the barnacles removed? can you do it yourself with a scrapper? (i know this may make me look retarded!) any other maintenance i need to know about and do regularly? how regularly?

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, BeOur3rd.

[jangann]

BeOur3rd, welcome.

You have big dreams, but need some knowledge and experience before you dive in.

Start by sailing on other people's boats. Crew on racing boats (check out your local sailing club for this), take lessons, charter with a captain. Do a liveaboard class. It'd be good for GF to take one too, preferably a women's only course IMO.

Read. Read a lot. Tons of great books on going cruising out there. Read 20 of them before buying.

Take a Coast Guard Auxiliary course, or similar, to learn the rules of the road. Buy yourself a copy of Chapman's Piloting while you're at it. Read it cover to cover.

Start with a smaller boat and move up. Something like a 25-27 foot boat is great to start on, and you'll have fun while learning on something cheap (should suit you given your concern for money). Make small mistakes before getting a big boat. Given the questions you are asking, you should think carefully about a 57 foot boat or even a 30 foot boat. Don't lose all your money like your parents did . . . .

Good luck.

[OldFrog75]

Welcome to CF.

Your member info doesn't say where you live. Not that it matters but assuming you live in the US, I would encourage you (and your girlfriend) to get some formal instruction from a certified USS or ASA school. Not terribly expensive and worth it when just starting out.

I second the recommendation to sail on as many different boats as you can and checking out local club opportunities for daysails and races is a good way to go.

[BeOur3rd]

sorry but my life needs to move forward, please address my questions and concerns ;] i simply will dive into one boat and hope it suits me i dont have time to sail on various boats and there are not boats close to me really. we do plan on taking lessons before going out but.
coming from families with no money we are working huge hours saving for this goal and it leaves no time for extra curricular's.

i am concerned about loving our boat which is why id like people to share their reasons on why they love "this type" or "that type" of boat.

and hopefully ill be able to form an idea of what i want from that.

i'm in northern/central ontario canada

[BeOur3rd]

actually if anyone knows of a liveaboard class in ontario we might consider doing that if its local depending on how it works.. anyone know of one in ontario/

please understand we are avid outdoors people, we're used to have less accommodations this is not an issue for us.

[brookiesailor]

My suggestion then is to start reading. Read books on general sailing, rules of the road, navigation, maintenance and anything else you can get your hands on. My concern for your plan is safety, not only for yourself but for those around you. It is like moving from the jungle and buying a car and saying you are going to teach yourself how to drive and maintain it. It can be done but it needs to be done with thought and preparation.


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[BeOur3rd]

Originally Posted by brookiesailor

My suggestion then is to start reading. Read books on general sailing, rules of the road, navigation, maintenance and anything else you can get your hands on. My concern for your plan is safety, not only for yourself but for those around you. It is like moving from the jungle and buying a car and saying you are going to teach yourself how to drive and maintain it. It can be done but it needs to be done with thought and preparation.


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totally understand that, thats why im here! hehe anything you recommend? and if you'll notice i had asked above .. for any kind of book that has rules and regulations?

[skipmac]

Hi BeOur3rd,

I can understand your impatience to get a boat and get into cruising asap, but with all respect, asking other cruisers about what they like on boats and making a decision on that basis is quite like asking other men what they like about women and picking a wife on that basis.

What one likes another will hate. That's why there are so many boats with so many different styles, designs, rigs, layouts, etc.

Buying a boat for long term cruising and live aboard is indeed much like getting married. Make a bad decision and it can haunt you every day for the rest of the time you own the boat.

If you just cannot bear to get just a little experience on boats before jumping in then I will second the recommendations of others to read about boats. Everything about boats: boat building, boat design, rigs, sails, sail trim, boat maintenance, boat repair. Read books written by cruisers, their experiences and voyages. The pioneers like Eric and Susan Hiscock. Miles and Beryl Smeeton. More recent voyagers like Fatty Goodlander. Read books about cruising boats. The Voyager's Handbook by Beth Leonard is an excellent reference or an older book with very different opinions on the same subject The Ocean Sailing Yacht by Donald Street.

When you aren't reading go hand around some boats and talk to the owners.

[BeOur3rd]

Originally Posted by skipmac

What one likes another will hate. That's why there are so many boats with so many different styles, designs, rigs, layouts, etc.

what i requested was what do you prefer and why. so if you tell me what your priorities are and what boat you prefer or you wish you had gotten then that educates me.

ive already got a wife im not asking for you to tell me if you're a boob or ass man, you're dumbing it down.

you could though tell me what boats you have owned and why you liked or disliked each of them?

[brookiesailor]

Start with "costal sailing made easy" by the American sailing association. Gives simple rules of the road and how to get in and out of harbors. Any basic book on sailing would be good. Parts of the boat, points of sail etc.


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[farm sail]

There are no simple answers to the questions you are asking. You should read up and get a bit of experience. Then you will be surprised how many of those questions you will answer your self. Your goals and dreams are great but going off half cocked and unprepared is dangerous. You can't just pull into a gas station for directions or park it on the side and walk home if something goes wrong. We have a thread around here talking about weather it is a good idea to encourage unprepared and unwilling to get prepared New folk to jump in over their heads. I don't think you will find many here that will want to send you off unprepared. Find the time to take some classes, and spend some time on boats. Rent or charter, crew for others but get some sea time read some books on cruising, boat repair and Maintenance. You don't need to spend 20 years doing this. If you spent 1 weekend a month, read 1 book a month and took a couple of power squadron classes over the next year you would be well on your way to being able to answer a lot of questions your self and even more important is you will learn the questions that you really need to get answers for. Plus you will sound like an up and coming sailor that is looking to learn and grow rather than some impatient yahoo looking for a quick answer so they can run off half cocked and get them selves and/or others killed.

No one here is going to tell you " you can't do it " but do it right and enjoy it for the rest of your life

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by BeOur3rd

what i requested was what do you prefer and why. so if you tell me what your priorities are and what boat you prefer or you wish you had gotten then that educates me.

ive already got a wife im not asking for you to tell me if you're a boob or ass man, you're dumbing it down.

You're asking me to distill 40+ years of boating and owning 15-20 different boats from 8-17' dinghies, several 17-20' ski boats, 25' twin V-8 speed boat, 36' sport fisherman, 34-36-42-65' sailboats with full keel, fin keel, modified fin, ketch, sloop and cutter and sailing a number of others including cats, yawls and large trawlers?

To give complete and accurate analysis of all the above, even just the sailboats and all the reasons I like and dislike various aspects could fill a small book. Sorry but I just don't have the time to do justice to the question. With all due respect, to answer that question in a couple of sentences or paragraphs you are asking me to dumb it down.

[BeOur3rd]

Originally Posted by farm sail

There are no simple answers to the questions you are asking. You should read up and get a bit of experience. Then you will be surprised how many of those questions you will answer your self. Your goals and dreams are great but going off half cocked and unprepared is dangerous. You can't just pull into a gas station for directions or park it on the side and walk home if something goes wrong. We have a thread around here talking about weather it is a good idea to encourage unprepared and unwilling to get prepared New folk to jump in over their heads. I don't think you will find many here that will want to send you off unprepared. Find the time to take some classes, and spend some time on boats. Rent or charter, crew for others but get some sea time read some books on cruising, boat repair and Maintenance. You don't need to spend 20 years doing this. If you spent 1 weekend a month, read 1 book a month and took a couple of power squadron classes over the next year you would be well on your way to being able to answer a lot of questions your self and even more important is you will learn the questions that you really need to get answers for. Plus you will sound like an up and coming sailor that is looking to learn and grow rather than some impatient yahoo looking for a quick answer so they can run off half cocked and get them selves and/or others killed.

No one here is going to tell you " you can't do it " but do it right and enjoy it for the rest of your life

i realize that, again thats why i'm here, i will read, i already know what type of boat i want, but i would like to hear why people like what it might enlighten me and prevent me making bad mistakes.

everyone who's posting seems to think i want an easy fix, and want to just dive in with problems solved for me, i'm a very smart and very capable person, i realize this is not the best option, but it is what i have, so i am working with what i have, please assume i'm not an idiot in reading my posts, and understand i am wanting help, not someone to do it for me.

also about the boat being a wife, you know when ever i decide what boat to buy, it will mean so much to me, that whatever boat i end up with, it will be very dear to me. it might not be perfect, and im sure ill curse a few things on it, "why did they design this that way. who does that!" but... when it comes down to it, the boat will mean freedom for us... and that is what counts nothing is ever perfect, enjoying what you have is an easy way to live if you learn to.

and i guarantee you ive had to live with worse than whatever hardships the boat will bring me, except there it will be on my terms.

i know nothing, i said i know nothing. some of you people are so bloody condescending instead of being helpful its not even funny. i am a rational smart person, i know ill need to read rules. i asked what the rules were and where i could find them, i know i cant just get a boat and sail her out, im sure as heck going to get someone who knows what they are doing to show me the boat i buy before going out, i simply came here for help. and regretting it.

[brookiesailor]

Ok let me answer this in another way. My husband and I are approaching this from the opposite angle as he has a career that is in the way of our cruising dreams. We have selected our boat but wait to purchase it until we have the time and money for upkeep and ability to use the boat. I would like that to be today but alas it is not. The boat we have chosen is 51 feet long, fiberglass. It has lots of storage spaces as we are looking to do extended cruising. The configuration is such that it can be operated by one person (as having a crew of two, someone may be sleeping). We are buying a used boat so a survey is needed to make sure we know the issues and can have them repaired before we start. There WILL be repairs and issues that need to be dealt with on a used boat. Best that you know them from the start and are not surprised by them when out sailing.

While we are waiting to get the boat we have done certain things to prepare. I have read "The Voyagers handbook" (excellent), "storm tactics" by Lin and Lary Paredy, taken a class in costal navigation and boat handling, bought another book on "The care and feeding of the crew" and finally a book on knots. I have yet to start the last two. I have twenty plus years of small boat sailing. My husband is a ships engineer and a mate. I want to make sure if anything happens to him I can take over the boat.

My suggestion is this. Buy the book on basic sailing and read up. Buy the book on coastal navigation AND a chart of the waters you intend on starting in and use that for practicing what you learn in the book. Buy a book on knots, a basic one is fine to start off, or even better yet there are some free online resources for knot tying, just get a length of line and get to work!

I know nothing about aluminum boats, just that my husband was against both those and steel. I didn't ask why, just narrowed my field so that is all I needed to know.


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