Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2011, 09:52   #16
Registered User
 
Feral Cement's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Carolina, USA
Boat: Tartan 34C
Posts: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
It's as if folks are simply making stuff up
I'm not sure who exactly you are talking about. We (humans) have been around for over a million years. We have increased in numbers at the same time we have increased our demands upon/exploitation of the planet. The curve is exponential and it's not made up - it's counting noses. At the same time, in graphs that roughly parallel the human population explosion, we see energy consumption, deforestation, extinction of species, and a rise in pollutants of various types.

Year
Population

(in millions)


10000 BC
4
5000 BC
5
4000 BC
7
3000 BC
14
2000 BC
27
1000 BC
50
500 BC
100
200 BC
150
0
170
200 AD
190
400 AD
190
500 AD
190
600 AD
200
700 AD
210
800 AD
220
900 AD
240
1000 AD
265
1100 AD
320
1200 AD
360
1300 AD
360
1400 AD
350
1500 AD
425
1550 AD
480
1600 AD
545
1650 AD
545
1700 AD
610
1750 AD
720
1800 AD
900
1850 AD
1200
1875 AD
1325
1900 AD
1625
1925 AD
2000
1950 AD
2500
1975 AD
3900
1999 AD
6000


How could this NOT have a dramatic impact upon the environment? It's REAL and it's getting WORSE, not better. If you think that's all a coincidence, I think you're making stuff up.

John
__________________

__________________
Feral Cement is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 12:38   #17
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
From my observations, (while I am not a scientist), I would say there has been a dramatic drop in biodiversity over last 30 years or so.

Species of plants present on local dunes when I was a kid are no longer there. Yes, there is the dune grass, but there used to be a dozen of different plants there before. The fish is gone - there were at least two dozen species in our lake, now there are perhaps three species. There were birds that I see no more and mammals that are no longer around.

And all this just within my own 'extended backyard'.

La Graciosa island, Canary Islands, Spain, EU - a very rare, threatened species of burrow petrel. Eggs taken out because they are believed to be aphrodisiac. XXI century, civilized (???) country: voodoo beliefs and wiping out a species living in a nature reserve.

There used to be a marsh South of my place but the marsh is gone. There used to be a meadow next to my company's offices, and the meadow is gone. All animals and plants living in the marsh and the meadow - gone.

And one can say the animals are out there in the outback. But where is the outback now? I have seen some in Northern Australia and some enclaves on remote uninhabited atolls, but the links between such islands of undisturbed nature have been cut and the populations there shrink and degenerate. Primary school subject - gene pool. Unimportant.

I would say, based on observation of one person alone and within only 30 years - there has been a dramatic - 50% or more - reduction of number of species in our immediate vicinity, the percentage will be probably lower in the rain forest but mind what is going on with the rainforest - it is being cut down to grow soy beans that are later converted into fuel oil. So that we CAN drive our kids to the theater so that they can watch the newest of Disney - The Extinction of The Species. How sad.

I'd rather my kids could go out there and see the species live and doing fine. But yes I know I am a CREEP. I spend my days varnishing planks, patching sails and sailing AIMLESSLY around, spoiling the fun for those who pay taxes and feel fine.

I bet the only chance for the planet to survive is if the most intelligent (???) species wipes itself out.

A pessimistic view? Nay. A realistic? Probably.

PS Doh, looks like I got carried away, again.

barnie
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:11   #18
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
There's an excellent documentary about this called The End Of The Line.

Incredible film. Well worth watching no matter what side of the argument your on.
__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:25   #19
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
It's as if folks are simply making stuff up ...
But they're not.

I slightly misstated the IUCN position, which is actually:
“... In the last 500 years, human activity is known to have forced 869 species to extinction (or extinction in the wild)...”
http://cmsdata.iucn.org/downloads/sp...on_05_2007.pdf

I suspect that they could name the 869 included species.

On the other hand, Richard Leakey’s range (17,000 - 100,000) represent a total estimate.
Part of his lengthy argument & explanation can be found
Here ➥ Sixth Extinction
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:36   #20
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
Here on the Gulf coast I see fish I'm not allowed to catch because the're "extinct" being brought in by the hundreds of tons by factory ships & long liners. Larger blue fin and yellow fin tuna are becoming rarer, but are still collected by the entire school by tuna fleets. They don't even leave 1 pair to reproduce.

Some die offs are the fault of "enviromentalists", I.E. the large dead zone at the mouth of the mississippi is the result of fertilizer runnoff from ethanol farming.
__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:39   #21
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
But they're not.

I slightly misstated the IUCN position, which is actually:
“... In the last 500 years, human activity is known to have forced 869 species to extinction (or extinction in the wild)...”
http://cmsdata.iucn.org/downloads/sp...on_05_2007.pdf

I suspect that they could name the 869 included species.

On the other hand, Richard Leakey’s range (17,000 - 100,000) represent a total estimate.
Part of his lengthy argument & explanation can be found
Here ➥ Sixth Extinction
So it's either 1 a year or 100,000. quite a range (I guess it could be higher. or lower - and would still "prove" whatever it needed to prove).
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:40   #22
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905
Jap and Korean trawles are so far offshore, not because its profitable, but because thats the only place left where a large catch is more likely.

In the early 1500s, european boats crossed the pond and reported the grand banks were so abundant, you could throw a basket in the sea and pull it out full of fish.

The Med is almost dead, fished out, and other places are going the same. Nature cannot sustain the massive population of the planet
__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:45   #23
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I bet the only chance for the planet to survive is if the most intelligent (???) species wipes itself out.

A pessimistic view? Nay. A realistic? Probably.

PS Doh, looks like I got carried away, again.

barnie

But wait..... Is that a bugle I hear???
THE CAVALRY IS COMING!

There is 'hope'.... I heard a prominent medical research scientist being interviewed on radio a couple of weeks back. In his quiet nerdie way, he sounded almost panic stricken.
The world is running out of options in the development of antibiotics, and there is NOTHING even remotely on the horizon to fill the gap. Doctors over prebscribe and super resistant germs/bacteria/viruses etc continue to develope.

We have about 15 years before antibiotics become ineffective... period.

We will start to see disease wiping out large populations, particularly in underdeveloped countries. The overcrowding, low hygene levels etc will see Mother Nature start to restore some balance...
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:49   #24
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
On the other hand, someone could push the button, and BOATMAN... you'd better develope a taste for those cockroaches you detest... it may be all that's left
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:53   #25
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,216
Images: 2
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
The overcrowding, low hygene levels etc will see Mother Nature start to restore some balance...
ROFL..... it hasn't worked very well so far.... in fact I'd say it strengthened the Human Race..... whats gonna kill off the so called 1st World is the obsession with sterilisation in the home etc and the resultant decrease in anti-bodies in your immune systems...
The so called 3rd World will outlive the rest....
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:57   #26
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
Here on the Gulf coast I see fish I'm not allowed to catch because the're "extinct" being brought in by the hundreds of tons by factory ships & long liners. Larger blue fin and yellow fin tuna are becoming rarer, but are still collected by the entire school by tuna fleets. They don't even leave 1 pair to reproduce.

Some die offs are the fault of "enviromentalists", I.E. the large dead zone at the mouth of the mississippi is the result of fertilizer runnoff from ethanol farming.
This is very misleading. The dead zone at mississippi delta is a little more involved then fertilizer run-off; one of the factors has been the clear cutting of the cypress swamps.

Your statement that ethanol farming has somethiing to do with environmentalists is even more misleading. Ethanol farming represents, in part, an effort to rely less on imported oil but even more it's about US corn production and agribusiness lobbying. If it was truly environmental in nature etahnol would be produced using cane from the countries where it's production is sensible but it is illegal to use that in the US as a result of protectionist measures for the corn crop.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 13:59   #27
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,216
Images: 2
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
On the other hand, someone could push the button, and BOATMAN... you'd better develope a taste for those cockroaches you detest... it may be all that's left
LOL.... they don't bother an ole 'Paki' like me.... they just freak out any ladies on board.... the big golden ones would be quite nutrious I imagine dry roasted in a skillet... be a bit like peeling shrimp...
Its the little black 'German Roaches' I dislike...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 14:25   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,312
Images: 75
breed more

the threat of mass extinction,genocide,famine,plague in what we call the 3rd world has allways been counteracted by having lots of children....

maybe when the time comes we "europeans" with a negative population growth should take a leaf out of their book................

what this has to do with fish i don't know?
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 15:42   #29
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
ROFL..... it hasn't worked very well so far.... in fact I'd say it strengthened the Human Race..... whats gonna kill off the so called 1st World is the obsession with sterilisation in the home etc and the resultant decrease in anti-bodies in your immune systems...
The so called 3rd World will outlive the rest....
Well... we've still got working antibiotics. All we're doing now is making the little buggers angrier!
When we've fired our last antibiotic shot, they're going to be all over us, so keep washing your hands, or whatever, after....

And remember, you don't have to out run the lions, you just have to out run the slowest runners
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 16:17   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hampton, VA
Boat: Cal 39, Karma
Posts: 183
Afew hundred years ago, Malthus postulated that the earth could only sustain about 5 billion people. His numbers may be off but his theory will be proven correct. We are the frogs in the slowly heating pot of water and a few hundred years from now, the survivors will be sitting around the fires and wondering "How could they have been so stupid in the 21st. century?"
__________________

__________________
jimking100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising, fishing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fishing License(s) While Cruising off-the-grid Fishing, Recreation & Fun 13 27-02-2015 05:31
High End Cruising KILLLIONFISH Cruising News & Events 6 11-10-2010 14:59
Silen† Nigh† delmarrey Off Topic Forum 1 25-12-2006 08:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.