Fishing and Cruising - But the End Is Nigh

[Feral Cement]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

It's as if folks are simply making stuff up

I'm not sure who exactly you are talking about. We (humans) have been around for over a million years. We have increased in numbers at the same time we have increased our demands upon/exploitation of the planet. The curve is exponential and it's not made up - it's counting noses. At the same time, in graphs that roughly parallel the human population explosion, we see energy consumption, deforestation, extinction of species, and a rise in pollutants of various types.

Year
Population

(in millions)


10000 BC
4
5000 BC
5
4000 BC
7
3000 BC
14
2000 BC
27
1000 BC
50
500 BC
100
200 BC
150
0
170
200 AD
190
400 AD
190
500 AD
190
600 AD
200
700 AD
210
800 AD
220
900 AD
240
1000 AD
265
1100 AD
320
1200 AD
360
1300 AD
360
1400 AD
350
1500 AD
425
1550 AD
480
1600 AD
545
1650 AD
545
1700 AD
610
1750 AD
720
1800 AD
900
1850 AD
1200
1875 AD
1325
1900 AD
1625
1925 AD
2000
1950 AD
2500
1975 AD
3900
1999 AD
6000

How could this NOT have a dramatic impact upon the environment? It's REAL and it's getting WORSE, not better. If you think that's all a coincidence, I think you're making stuff up.

John

[barnakiel]

From my observations, (while I am not a scientist), I would say there has been a dramatic drop in biodiversity over last 30 years or so.

Species of plants present on local dunes when I was a kid are no longer there. Yes, there is the dune grass, but there used to be a dozen of different plants there before. The fish is gone - there were at least two dozen species in our lake, now there are perhaps three species. There were birds that I see no more and mammals that are no longer around.

And all this just within my own 'extended backyard'.

La Graciosa island, Canary Islands, Spain, EU - a very rare, threatened species of burrow petrel. Eggs taken out because they are believed to be aphrodisiac. XXI century, civilized (???) country: voodoo beliefs and wiping out a species living in a nature reserve.

There used to be a marsh South of my place but the marsh is gone. There used to be a meadow next to my company's offices, and the meadow is gone. All animals and plants living in the marsh and the meadow - gone.

And one can say the animals are out there in the outback. But where is the outback now? I have seen some in Northern Australia and some enclaves on remote uninhabited atolls, but the links between such islands of undisturbed nature have been cut and the populations there shrink and degenerate. Primary school subject - gene pool. Unimportant.

I would say, based on observation of one person alone and within only 30 years - there has been a dramatic - 50% or more - reduction of number of species in our immediate vicinity, the percentage will be probably lower in the rain forest but mind what is going on with the rainforest - it is being cut down to grow soy beans that are later converted into fuel oil. So that we CAN drive our kids to the theater so that they can watch the newest of Disney - The Extinction of The Species. How sad.

I'd rather my kids could go out there and see the species live and doing fine. But yes I know I am a CREEP. I spend my days varnishing planks, patching sails and sailing AIMLESSLY around, spoiling the fun for those who pay taxes and feel fine.

I bet the only chance for the planet to survive is if the most intelligent (???) species wipes itself out.

A pessimistic view? Nay. A realistic? Probably.

PS Doh, looks like I got carried away, again.

barnie

[callmecrazy]

There's an excellent documentary about this called The End Of The Line.

Incredible film. Well worth watching no matter what side of the argument your on.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

It's as if folks are simply making stuff up ...

But they're not.

I slightly misstated the IUCN position, which is actually:
“... In the last 500 years, human activity is known to have forced 869 species to extinction (or extinction in the wild)...”
➥ http://cmsdata.iucn.org/downloads/sp...on_05_2007.pdf

I suspect that they could name the 869 included species.

On the other hand, Richard Leakey’s range (17,000 - 100,000) represent a total estimate.
Part of his lengthy argument & explanation can be found
Here ➥ Sixth Extinction

[capn_billl]

Here on the Gulf coast I see fish I'm not allowed to catch because the're "extinct" being brought in by the hundreds of tons by factory ships & long liners. Larger blue fin and yellow fin tuna are becoming rarer, but are still collected by the entire school by tuna fleets. They don't even leave 1 pair to reproduce.

Some die offs are the fault of "enviromentalists", I.E. the large dead zone at the mouth of the mississippi is the result of fertilizer runnoff from ethanol farming.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by GordMay

But they're not.

I slightly misstated the IUCN position, which is actually:
“... In the last 500 years, human activity is known to have forced 869 species to extinction (or extinction in the wild)...”
➥ http://cmsdata.iucn.org/downloads/sp...on_05_2007.pdf

I suspect that they could name the 869 included species.

On the other hand, Richard Leakey’s range (17,000 - 100,000) represent a total estimate.
Part of his lengthy argument & explanation can be found
Here ➥ Sixth Extinction

So it's either 1 a year or 100,000. quite a range (I guess it could be higher. or lower - and would still "prove" whatever it needed to prove).

[anjou]

Jap and Korean trawles are so far offshore, not because its profitable, but because thats the only place left where a large catch is more likely.

In the early 1500s, european boats crossed the pond and reported the grand banks were so abundant, you could throw a basket in the sea and pull it out full of fish.

The Med is almost dead, fished out, and other places are going the same. Nature cannot sustain the massive population of the planet

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I bet the only chance for the planet to survive is if the most intelligent (???) species wipes itself out.

A pessimistic view? Nay. A realistic? Probably.

PS Doh, looks like I got carried away, again.

barnie

But wait..... Is that a bugle I hear???
THE CAVALRY IS COMING!

There is 'hope'.... I heard a prominent medical research scientist being interviewed on radio a couple of weeks back. In his quiet nerdie way, he sounded almost panic stricken.
The world is running out of options in the development of antibiotics, and there is NOTHING even remotely on the horizon to fill the gap. Doctors over prebscribe and super resistant germs/bacteria/viruses etc continue to develope.

We have about 15 years before antibiotics become ineffective... period.

We will start to see disease wiping out large populations, particularly in underdeveloped countries. The overcrowding, low hygene levels etc will see Mother Nature start to restore some balance...

[VirtualVagabond]

On the other hand, someone could push the button, and BOATMAN... you'd better develope a taste for those cockroaches you detest... it may be all that's left

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

The overcrowding, low hygene levels etc will see Mother Nature start to restore some balance...

ROFL..... it hasn't worked very well so far.... in fact I'd say it strengthened the Human Race..... whats gonna kill off the so called 1st World is the obsession with sterilisation in the home etc and the resultant decrease in anti-bodies in your immune systems...
The so called 3rd World will outlive the rest....

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Here on the Gulf coast I see fish I'm not allowed to catch because the're "extinct" being brought in by the hundreds of tons by factory ships & long liners. Larger blue fin and yellow fin tuna are becoming rarer, but are still collected by the entire school by tuna fleets. They don't even leave 1 pair to reproduce.

Some die offs are the fault of "enviromentalists", I.E. the large dead zone at the mouth of the mississippi is the result of fertilizer runnoff from ethanol farming.

This is very misleading. The dead zone at mississippi delta is a little more involved then fertilizer run-off; one of the factors has been the clear cutting of the cypress swamps.

Your statement that ethanol farming has somethiing to do with environmentalists is even more misleading. Ethanol farming represents, in part, an effort to rely less on imported oil but even more it's about US corn production and agribusiness lobbying. If it was truly environmental in nature etahnol would be produced using cane from the countries where it's production is sensible but it is illegal to use that in the US as a result of protectionist measures for the corn crop.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

On the other hand, someone could push the button, and BOATMAN... you'd better develope a taste for those cockroaches you detest... it may be all that's left

LOL.... they don't bother an ole 'Paki' like me.... they just freak out any ladies on board.... the big golden ones would be quite nutrious I imagine dry roasted in a skillet... be a bit like peeling shrimp...
Its the little black 'German Roaches' I dislike...

[atoll]

the threat of mass extinction,genocide,famine,plague in what we call the 3rd world has allways been counteracted by having lots of children....

maybe when the time comes we "europeans" with a negative population growth should take a leaf out of their book................

what this has to do with fish i don't know?

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by boatman61

ROFL..... it hasn't worked very well so far.... in fact I'd say it strengthened the Human Race..... whats gonna kill off the so called 1st World is the obsession with sterilisation in the home etc and the resultant decrease in anti-bodies in your immune systems...
The so called 3rd World will outlive the rest....

Well... we've still got working antibiotics. All we're doing now is making the little buggers angrier!
When we've fired our last antibiotic shot, they're going to be all over us, so keep washing your hands, or whatever, after....

And remember, you don't have to out run the lions, you just have to out run the slowest runners

[jimking100]

Afew hundred years ago, Malthus postulated that the earth could only sustain about 5 billion people. His numbers may be off but his theory will be proven correct. We are the frogs in the slowly heating pot of water and a few hundred years from now, the survivors will be sitting around the fires and wondering "How could they have been so stupid in the 21st. century?"