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Old 22-05-2013, 07:06   #301
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pirate Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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So the customs lady was right after all and not just being nasty for the heck of it... and we all thought the Channel Islands would reset the clock and thus were wrong.
That's forum experts for ya...
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Old 22-05-2013, 07:28   #302
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

Read some of this with interest (slow internet).

As a warning here in south france have seen 1 non eu boat impounded in the last week for unpaid VAT. Customs here seems quite active at the moment - coming into the marina and searching boats as well as boarding offshore lately. Locals say they have never seen anything like the activity....
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Old 22-05-2013, 07:30   #303
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

But to answer the OP YES i bllody well am by this damn wind!!@! 40 knots for next 5 days aaaarggghj
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Old 22-05-2013, 09:17   #304
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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So the customs lady was right after all and not just being nasty for the heck of it... and we all thought the Channel Islands would reset the clock and thus were wrong.
Yes, it turns out she may be correct, but it doesn't take from the fact that she sent us a bill and impounded our boat before even asking for any proof that we were or were not out of the EU. According to the EC Commission, by going to the Channel Islands from the UK, we were out of the EU waters, therefore resetting the clock.

The strange part is the letter from the Jersey Port Authority stating that they are outside of the EU. Someone needs to let them know
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Old 22-05-2013, 09:33   #305
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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The EC has a list here of definitions:
Customs glossary - European commission

And it appears that the "custom territory" appears to include:
"the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man."
So the Channel Islands indeed do not reset the VAT clock...
Thanks for the link! Gibraltar is not on that list, but I thought it didn't reset the clock.

I guess some of our confusion came from VAT vs Customs. We've been looking at the VAT regulations from the UK - specifically section 1.3 and 5.5:

HM Revenue & Customs
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Old 22-05-2013, 13:24   #306
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

Is there a ''sticky'' for cruising the med ?

I am sure if a lot more of us non E.U. members knew how to cruise this area for longer and staying within the rules and regs there may be a lot less scaremongering.

Or is it a simple case of sailing to a non E.U. country to ''reload yer visa?
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Old 22-05-2013, 13:31   #307
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pirate Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

Its the safe bet...
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Old 22-05-2013, 16:06   #308
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Is there a ''sticky'' for cruising the med ?

I am sure if a lot more of us non E.U. members knew how to cruise this area for longer and staying within the rules and regs there may be a lot less scaremongering.

Or is it a simple case of sailing to a non E.U. country to ''reload yer visa?
Yes but that list of countries is shrinking

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Old 22-05-2013, 16:14   #309
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Originally Posted by cahlgren View Post

Thanks for the link! Gibraltar is not on that list, but I thought it didn't reset the clock.

I guess some of our confusion came from VAT vs Customs. We've been looking at the VAT regulations from the UK - specifically section 1.3 and 5.5:

HM Revenue & Customs
Actually I knew this even though I had a brain fart moment , the channels islands are NOT in the EU. bUT by agreement they participate in the free movement of goods , hence they are inside the customs union, even though they are outside the VAT Area , this is similar to the canaries ( who are in the EU , but not in the VAT area )

The UK advice is correct , but not relevant


While simply sailing outside the 12 mile zone , is sufficient as far as the Directive goes , the difficultly being how to prove it. Drawing a line on a chart is unlikely to be sufficient



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Old 22-05-2013, 16:21   #310
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nOTE Gibraltar is outside the customs union therefore it qualifies as a destination to reset the vat clock.

However Spanish authorities have often refused to a accept Gib as such. nOTe that GIb is IN the EU, unlike the Isles Normandie !

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Old 23-05-2013, 00:45   #311
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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The strange part is the letter from the Jersey Port Authority stating that they are outside of the EU. Someone needs to let them know
They are out of the EU. They are inside the customs area. There are also places that are in the EU, but that are outside of the customs area. Some of them have quite interesting histories...

Looks like Helgoland might be an interesting place to plan a stopover if you're cruising in that area...
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Old 23-05-2013, 08:26   #312
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

well let me put this one into the mix of things i have never had any problems in the eu sailing in the past am a uk resident 20 yrs aussie passport holder uk flagged Yacht, last Sunday i broke down with a head casket failure In Santorini I managed to get a safe anchorage for the night behind the Caldera So got on internet to find local yacht boat owners to if could help there answer was NO i must call port Authorities in the end Monday morning I radio them they arrange a tow to a Mooring bouy in thira below cable car they take all my Yacht papers and passport . they tell me i must get A Lloyds certified person to say once yacht is repaired to give they ok searched and asked around all Monday not one local mechanic would help or do the job so I strip down cylinder head and of course didn't have all the correct spanners found search hardware shops etc none to be found only metric sizes need Imperial spanners found an greek man with a garage ask him goes to a couple of old wooden boxs found the 4 spanners i needed he charged me 100 euros for them.
Contact Insurance company to see if they can help with the surveyor what a joke they are never again with them contact Lloyds in london they send me a list all based in athens but in the mean time i located a british guy based in Athens who can help me out and today I found out that Greek Port Authorities are going to start doing more Checks on all Yachts ie non Greek ones i whish every one the best of luck time to head home to Oz
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Old 23-05-2013, 08:50   #313
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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......last Sunday i broke down with a head casket failure In Santorini I managed to get a safe anchorage for the night behind the Caldera So got on internet to find local yacht boat owners to if could help there answer was NO i must call port Authorities in the end Monday morning I radio them they arrange a tow to a Mooring bouy in thira below cable car they take all my Yacht papers and passport . they tell me i must get A Lloyds certified person to say once yacht is repaired to give they ok searched and asked around all Monday not one local mechanic would help or do the job so I strip down cylinder head and of course didn't have all the correct spanners found search hardware shops etc none to be found only metric sizes need Imperial spanners found an greek man with a garage ask him goes to a couple of old wooden boxs found the 4 spanners i needed he charged me 100 euros for them.
Contact Insurance company to see if they can help with the surveyor what a joke they are never again with them contact Lloyds in london they send me a list all based in athens but in the mean time i located a british guy based in Athens who can help me out and today I found out that Greek Port Authorities are going to start doing more Checks on all Yachts ie non Greek ones i whish every one the best of luck time to head home to Oz
I have just sent you a PM, so check your inbox.
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Old 28-05-2013, 07:20   #314
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

What news from cahlgren?

I'm guessing there are a couple of run ins with Portugal authorities to report by now, right?
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Old 28-05-2013, 09:39   #315
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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What news from cahlgren?

I'm guessing there are a couple of run ins with Portugal authorities to report by now, right?
There was a meeting last week where the Customs agents were rude, threatened the marina for helping us and then threatened to call the police when asked for their business cards. A lawyer was called (even though the agents said we didn't need one), formal paperwork was filled by the deadline and now we wait for a reply. It sounds like it is a multi layered 'process' though they won't tell us what the 'process' is - in fact they said it was illegal for us to ask about the process

We are hoping to get a positive reply in the next day or so, though the lawyer said that they will drag it out as long as they can. If they come back and still say we owe, then it goes to the next step in the process, though we don't know that that means.
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