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Old 30-05-2013, 15:44   #331
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No Don , this is very useful stuff, because rarely does this thing get discussed in first hand terms. There have been several. Problems over the years with over zealous Portuguese officials in certain ports and its a very useful debate ( for as long as those involved wish to provide us with updates. )

If that puts you of , its puts you off. Its certainly not a common place event , infact a rare one , but nonetheless extremely informative

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Old 30-05-2013, 16:49   #332
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Problems over the years with over zealous Portuguese officials in certain ports and its a very useful debate
So which ports are we 'talking" as don't know. Should I judge all the EU on this?

Is there any "debate"?
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Old 30-05-2013, 17:07   #333
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So which ports are we 'talking" as don't know. Should I judge all the EU on this?

Is there any "debate"?
By and large VAT on foreign registered vessels is not an issue, confrontations are rare , but They do happen, often where people inadvertently transgress.

Compared to foreign vessels entering the uS , the EU is very light touch but like all federated states , it has increasing bureaucracy , zealous officials and especially regarding vat a Byzantine set of laws

In this case as I understand it the poster in question did stay a long time , but puts forward the case that they left the customs union on a sea route, since there is little case law or precedent in relation to boats claiming TIR , its probably somewhat of a unusual situation and one that is of interest.

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Old 30-05-2013, 17:23   #334
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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its probably somewhat of a unusual situation and one that is of interest.

Dave
I wrote that it was of interest, just that it isn't the end-all of interest to THIS thread.

I think if you are on the edge of stay in the EU some ports are to be avoided just like anywhere. But that doesn't really help me decide if I should consider going to the EU.

And I don't know what port we are talking about even if it was stated somewhere way back.
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Old 31-05-2013, 02:33   #335
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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But that doesn't really help me decide if I should consider going to the EU.
Well nobody goes to the "EU", they 'do' 'Erup', so really you have to look at it region by region, ie whats interests you, then you can decide if you want to go to that region,

Its a big place

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Old 31-05-2013, 10:43   #336
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

One question, it was mentioned that Gibraltar is out of the EU VAT zone. Does that mean entering and staying in Gibraltar for a few days should reset the 18 month clock?
And yes Don I think most of your initial questions were answered before Cahlgren's problem was raised, but if you have any specific questions that weren't, feel free to ask.
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Old 31-05-2013, 11:26   #337
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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(...) Also your Embassy and or the EU Commission contacts need to be used very carefully, if the customs are convinced they are right , such pressure can actually be counter productive, (...)
Yes. In this light.

It is obvious (to me) that one must start with a fair judgement of who is right. And since Portuguese Customs have already taken action, now it is up to the owner to prove the boat has effectively left the zone.

It is my strong belief that just sailing out to the international sea and back DOES NOT clear the clock.

And as Goboating said, if you are not right or when you cannot prove that you are, then pressure will not help.

Bad news, and you are in the wrong country too.

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Old 31-05-2013, 16:50   #338
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

I'd just like to re-state that IMO cruising the Med is absolutely worth it. Basically breathtaking every day. Break the rules anywhere and don't be surprised to pay a price. I leave in 4 days for a 7 week Adriatic cruise and can hardly wait. My hardest choice will be to someday sail West past the Pillars of Hercules and have to decide to turn right or left. One way leads home, the other towards more EU cruising.

GBN, I had thought that Gibraltar did NOT reset the clock. Which is it?

Don, you are right that the specific issue of Cahlgren would have been better dealt with in a separate thread
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Old 31-05-2013, 17:12   #339
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

It was dealt with here because of the question originally asked. I won't bother your thread again.
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Old 31-05-2013, 20:51   #340
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

Cahlgren, I didn't mean any offense and your problem is certainly worthwhile discussing and documenting. That's why it is better to sometimes have a separate thread to stay focused on your specific issue. But, it is the way that forums twist and turn in discussion.
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Old 31-05-2013, 21:29   #341
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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I wrote that it was of interest, just that it isn't the end-all of interest to THIS thread.
Seems like to me that time limitations and consequences are absolutely the point of THIS thread.

But I would also not have a problem if a more specific thread were created, with the end result posted in this thread.
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Old 31-05-2013, 21:56   #342
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

For goodness sake these people have a problem stop bitchin' about what thread it should be in, why not offer some support / help instead?

Put your self in their position.
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Old 31-05-2013, 23:56   #343
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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It was dealt with here because of the question originally asked. I won't bother your thread again.
Calgren
Please don't take offence. Views are just aired very openly here, sometimes without much thought for people's feelings.

The information you have shared is absolutely invaluable to non EU boats cruising the Med or contemplating doing so. Many thanks for doing so.

Several misconceptions have been revealed.

Everything you have posted is very relevant to being put off sailing in the Med (the topic of this thread). A new thread would simply have been useful for anyone seeking specific information in the future on VAT issues, but a new thread may not have been noticed. This way it is probably reaching far more people. There has been no thread drift.

I hope the situation will be resolved for you quickly and with a good outcome. I know you must be extremely worried. If they are classing the boat as new and deem that you have overstayed the 18 months, the amount of VAT payable will be a horrific figure (all the more so as it is unexpected).

Sending best wishes
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Old 01-06-2013, 00:18   #344
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

Yes, I'm definitely put off sailing in the EU... or rather, not being able to do much sailing. Now having spent all of November and all of March in the middle of the Med and now a week heading into June beginning today, I've only been able to log four days of sailing due to the deplorable weather. It's June 1st and I have the heat on inside the boat and it's still only 55 degrees outside, rainy and windy.

Sure there's lots to see here, but now I think it's best done on a cruise ship... much less hassle, much lower cost. Our other cruising friends here in the Med are experiencing the same issues, bad weather throughout and marinas charging outrageous fees.

We're heading back to North America at the end of summer, and sure hoping the weather starts to improve here soon... it's 92 degrees today back in New England. We won't be heading back to the EU after this summer any time soon, since other areas offer a much better chance of nice weather.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:18   #345
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Yes, I'm definitely put off sailing in the EU... or rather, not being able to do much sailing. Now having spent all of November and all of March in the middle of the Med and now a week heading into June beginning today, I've only been able to log four days of sailing due to the deplorable weather. It's June 1st and I have the heat on inside the boat and it's still only 55 degrees outside, rainy and windy.

Sure there's lots to see here, but now I think it's best done on a cruise ship... much less hassle, much lower cost. Our other cruising friends here in the Med are experiencing the same issues, bad weather throughout and marinas charging outrageous fees.

We're heading back to North America at the end of summer, and sure hoping the weather starts to improve here soon... it's 92 degrees today back in New England. We won't be heading back to the EU after this summer any time soon, since other areas offer a much better chance of nice weather.
We found the same about the weather here. However, this is an unusual year for weather.

For us the magical line was Grimaud/St Tropez in France: anything west of there is COLD, anything east is much closer to reg summer temps ( even contemplating going swimming)
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