How practical a sailboat to tow a power cruiser for long distance travel?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rickykngo

Thank you all for all the inputs. Now I know it's a dumb idea. And knowing sailboat is my only option is a great help in narrow down my search for boat. Thanks.

Not only is it not your only option, based on your comments, it probably isn't even your best option.

A trawler probably makes more sense as it doesn't appear you have sailing experience. Or consider a catamaran.

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Not only is it not practical, it's galacticaly unsafe. I'm thinking you've never been on a boat before if you're really even contemplating this.

Towing is something that demands near constant attention by crew on the towing boat and the towed boat in all but flat, uncongested waters. To even think of doing it offshore in anything short of a dire emergency is sheer folly.
[snip]

This should resonate loudly!! The time I spent in the Coast Guard will attest to it.. Very dangerous indeed in all but the most calm waters.. And even then something not to take lightly..

But to the practicality aspect, just think how much fuel you could buy for what you would have to spend on the buying the boat (even if it was very cheap) and its upkeep.. Seems like trying to save a few bucks at the cost of many more..

flk k

[rickykngo]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

Get a catamaran (if you like the concept of sailing) or a trawler (and ditch the power boat idea otherwise)

Isn't the trawler and the power cruiser the same? They're both displacement except the trawler has bigger fuel tank. The cruiser is faster, but if you slow down the cruiser at trawler speed, the fuel consumption is almost the same. Am I right? I'm not talking about the Searay flat bottom type boat.

Thank you to those being patient with their comments.

I'm from Rio Ranch, New Mexico. There's nothing to learn about boat in this desert. I recently drove my motorhome to the East Coast looking at boat. And I just came from back from San Diego after living there 3 weeks in my motorhome for looking for the right boat. We're (wife + 8yrs old daughter) planning to drive to the East Coast again along the Gulf to find a liveaboard boat for us to travel around for a while. My wife wants spacious boat, but I want to be able to travel far away without breaking the bank. I know the catamaran is one of the option, but it's too expensive.
Thanks

[rickykngo]

Originally Posted by GILow

"Work" is subjective.

Any kind of sail will move a boat, kitesurfing sails better than some. (They experimented with giant kites on cargo ships a few years ago)



Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

your boat doesn't have to have a heavy keel and doesn't have to be as fast as this right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrkrepYd_uI

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by rickykngo

Isn't the trawler and the power cruiser the same? They're both displacement except the trawler has bigger fuel tank. The cruiser is faster, but if you slow down the cruiser at trawler speed, the fuel consumption is almost the same. Am I right? I'm not talking about the Searay flat bottom type boat.

Just being honest, you have a lot to learn or very likely you will end up with something you don't want, and likely spending more money than you should have.
To begin with of course there are no real distinct types of boats, no real clear cut lines, sometimes the same boat may be marketed with different labels, depending on what sells.
But usually a cruiser is a planing hull and works well on plane, has twin BIG engines and tiny rudders, cause at planing speeds big rudders are not needed and would be a huge increase in drag, so at low speeds the rudders aren't very effective and the engines are essentially idleing and the hull shape does not lend itself very well to going slow, it doesn't steer well, its not being operated the way it was designed to operate, and neither are the engines, you won't kill them running at very low power, but it will increase wear and may lead to cylinder wall glazing, increased oil consumption and smoking. Look up Diesel Stacking to see what I mean.
A trawler on the other hand is a displacement vessel, with a larger rudder and often a single engine sized so that it is being run efficiently at displacement speeds, its designed to be run that way and does so very well.
Difference in fuel consumption is literally as much as ten fold, speed cost money, big money.
I ran into a nice couple in a 65' big beautiful Sportfishing boat. If I remember correctly their average cruise speed was 26 kts, and their fuel consumption at that speed was 120 gallons per hour.
To put that in perspective, my little sailboat, I say little as it has probably about half the interior volume they did. But it goes 1/4 the speed at an average of 6.5 kts under motor alone, but my fuel burn is 120th as much as I burn 1 gallon per hour.

Now that is a ridiculous comparison as their boat cast ten times as much as mine and is much, much larger, but a smaller go fast boat about the size of my sailboat would likely still burn 50 GPH at those speeds, yes they can slow down but they then wallow around and don't steer well and soon the Diesel smoke and fumes gets excessive cause the motors need to be run out. You can slow down and save fuel, but its like walking a race horse, you want to let it run and you can tell its happiest there.

[AiniA]

Towed a guy with a dugout canoe (~18') up a river in Kuna Yala, Panama once with our soft bottom inflatable with a 6 hp. Hard to get him going but we were OK once we reached cruising speed of about 2 knots. Interesting thing culturally as they live on islands next to the coast (for safety in the past?) but have small farms up in the jungle.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rickykngo

Isn't the trawler and the power cruiser the same? They're both displacement except the trawler has bigger fuel tank. The cruiser is faster, but if you slow down the cruiser at trawler speed, the fuel consumption is almost the same. Am I right? I'm not talking about the Searay flat bottom type boat.

A lot of confusion as many of the terms used are marketing terms and not technical terms.

It gets a little muddy because manufactures have started putting structures on top that look like trawlers but the underwater hull and motors are closer to traditional planning cruiser design.

The original intention of trawler is typically assumed to be more of a round bottom hull with a single low HP motor....though even that isn't a hard and fast rule.

A power cruiser (there is no official definition) it typically a planning hull with two large motors.

You will lose a little efficiency if you run a power cruiser at displacement speed but it's actually pretty close. As long as you open them up occasionally, the concerns with running the motors at too low of a power setting for too long aren't a big concern and won't cost you much of fuel.

I wouldn't worry about rudder size being too small. By the time you are at 5-6kts, the small power boat rudders give plenty of control.

At really low speeds (say under 4kts), a planning hull boat will tend to require a lot of steering input but at typical trawler speeds (7-10kts), the issue largely goes away. With twin engines, maneuverability in tight quarters is better with the power cruiser.

Power cats are a whole different animal with different considerations.

The biggest issue with using a planning boat as opposed to a displacement boat is do you have the will power to resist burning that extra fuel. If they are honest, most people will admit, they won't take 3hrs to finish the last 20 miles of a run if they can just push the throttles forward and get there in 1 hr. With a trawler or sailboat, you don't have the option so it's self enforcing.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by StuM

That's hard to say. It's more a matter of the design of the towing boat and it's engines.

I've successfully towed the odd 40+ foot boat with displacement up to about 15 tonnes with our 20 ft SAR RIB which probably weighs about 500kg. So that's about 30:1. But those two 90HP outboards on the RIB help.

Stu, was that actually towing, or wereyou hip tied? We've successfully moved 50 foot yachts with our inflatable dinghy, tied alongside at t he quarter. A bit nerve wracking in close quarters, but easy enough in the open.

The common problem with towing from small boats is lack of a proper towing post as well as lack of power.

Jim

[tkeithlu]

Or run behind a police car and get free housing!

[tkeithlu]

QUOTE
"Isn't the trawler and the power cruiser the same? They're both displacement except the trawler has bigger fuel tank. The cruiser is faster, but if you slow down the cruiser at trawler speed, the fuel consumption is almost the same. Am I right? I'm not talking about the Searay flat bottom type boat."

Usually the cruiser has two engines and the ability, at great cost in fuel, to plow but not really plane. The hull is flatter and wider to the stern to facilitate this. The trawler usually is designed to travel at or below hull speed very economically. They are supposed to be more seaworthy and make passages. Unfortunately, hull shapes in most trawlers have been compromised to allow more interior space, so they are not all that seaworthy. At least, nothing like a monohull sailboat of the same length. If you need an explanation of hull speed, ask.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Come on, good teenage thinking just needs development. Surplus aircraft carriers going up soon, maybe on Craig's List? Cheaper than a trawler. Just tow one of those around with your sailboat. It'll go better downwind though. And if it gets a bit tough, just fly ashore until conditions improve. Easy Peasy. You'll get free Taro in the Pacific Island villages. Might even start an incident in South China Sea.

[tkeithlu]

Scotty, Please share with us your choice of recreational psychotropic drugs. That must be some mighty good s**t.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Stu, was that actually towing, or wereyou hip tied? We've successfully moved 50 foot yachts with our inflatable dinghy, tied alongside at t he quarter. A bit nerve wracking in close quarters, but easy enough in the open.

Both. I did side tow one game fishing boat about 8 miles, but that was on a very calm day. Almost invariably I would use an astern tow to get to close proximity with the marina and then switch to side tow to get them to a berth.

The common problem with towing from small boats is lack of a proper towing post as well as lack of power.

Fortunately our SAR RIB is designed for it with a good samson post in the bow and a very strong back plate with welded cleats for rigging a towing bridle or for a stern line when side towing.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by rickykngo

your boat doesn't have to have a heavy keel and doesn't have to be as fast as this right?

Yep, that looks pretty impressive.... that is until you drill down into the numbers a bit. They reckon getting 40 degrees apparent wind is impressive... my 40 year old 17 ton cruising boat can do much better than that. They reckon 28 knots is fast... ok, my 40 year old boat ain't going that fast, but there are plenty of boats out there than go faster. Heck, I've gone way faster on my windsurfer. (I was, quite literally, too scared to let go at that point, thank goodness that wind gust faded out.)

Good on them for building it, but it just really proves the point. They had to go to a lot of trouble to get something with mediocre (or no) upwind ability, moderate speed and absolutely ZERO practical usability. If reaching back and forth across the face of the wind in dead flat conditions, without even a cup holder, is what you need then you've found your boat.

Otherwise, it's back to that compromise thing I keep harping on about.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by StuM

That's hard to say. It's more a matter of the design of the towing boat and it's engines.

I've successfully towed the odd 40+ foot boat with displacement up to about 15 tonnes with our 20 ft SAR RIB which probably weighs about 500kg. So that's about 30:1. But those two 90HP outboards on the RIB help.

Yeah, that kind of power to weight ratio probably changes things a bit.

Well, if I can find a sucker volunteer this summer, I'm going to experiment a little.