So easy to do this right, but they didn’t

[hlev00]

I don’t know if this is Beneteau’s handy work or the dealer for the original owner.

Is there any legit reason why they would have used red to connect AC ground? I haven’t traced it all the way down but I am pretty sure it goes down to the second AC panel where air cond is wired to. I confirmed that this does go to ground, not 12V.

It is scary what you find when you go exploring.

Harry

[smac999]

Who knows, follow the whole thing and don't make guesses

Could also be a/c hot if boat is 240v

[Zil]

120Vac uses black, white, green. 220Vac uses red, black, white, green. Usually. If you didn't trace the wire how do you know it is ground?

[Colin A]

Originally Posted by Zil

120Vac uses black, white, green. 220Vac uses red, black, white, green. Usually. If you didn't trace the wire how do you know it is ground?

If it was a euro boat you would have brown and blue on the AC side but never seen red in AC wiring on a euro boat.

[Teknishn]

Originally Posted by hlev00

It is scary what you find when you go exploring.

As a semi-retired Marine Electrician (and retired Navy IC-Man), I could fill pages and pages here on the forum of the wiring shortcuts and nightmares that I have encountered over my 37+ years working on/building/consulting on boats, ships and yachts.

Chances are that that was the only piece of wire of the correct length available in order to effect a repair (whether emergency or otherwise). Either that, or just plain bad workmanship by a contractor sometime in the past. Doubtful that it was a Beneteau screw-up. You may be able to discern the difference by examining the terminal lugs and crimps at each end of the wire...factory or not? Either way, you now know your boat a bit better and have a greater awareness of you electrical systems

In the world of volts and amps on any seagoing vessel, the idea "free electrons" is never good...

[a64pilot]

I have a significant amount of what I am pretty share was factory installed DC wiring that is black (ground) and white (hot)
Is that a Marine standard?
AC on the same boat is black (hot) white (neutral) and green (ground)

[hlev00]

Originally Posted by Zil

120Vac uses black, white, green. 220Vac uses red, black, white, green. Usually. If you didn't trace the wire how do you know it is ground?

Zero Ohm to ground. I'm going to see if I can get my camera behind the cabinet where the wire runs to verify.

[Steve Bean]

Get some green rigging tape/electrical tape and mark every verified ground wire.

[smac999]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I have a significant amount of what I am pretty share was factory installed DC wiring that is black (ground) and white (hot)
Is that a Marine standard?
AC on the same boat is black (hot) white (neutral) and green (ground)

your lucky. often when DC is black and white. white is ground and black is pos. because it's done by an AC electrician. that is common in a lot of commercial boats in shipyards.

all furuno gear comes with black and white power wires. but black is ground.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by hlev00

Zero Ohm to ground. I'm going to see if I can get my camera behind the cabinet where the wire runs to verify.

In a system with an isolation transformer all the AC wires connected to the transformer output will measure zero ohms to “ground”.

[Bruce K]

Originally Posted by smac999

your lucky. often when DC is black and white. white is ground and black is pos. because it's done by an AC electrician. that is common in a lot of commercial boats in shipyards.

all furuno gear comes with black and white power wires. but black is ground.

Thats very sensible because 10% of men are colour blind, a lot harder to confuse black and white, than red and green!

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

Thats very sensible because 10% of men are colour blind, a lot harder to confuse black and white, than red and green!

Absolutely NOT sensible. Using Black and White wires for BOTH AC and DC current carrying wire is a TERRIBLE idea. DO NOT DO IT! There is a good reason that the USCG will not give an Marine Engineering license to someone who is functionally color blind! You have now set up a system where 100% of everyone is confused instead of just the color blind.

Having wiring where the DC and AC circuits use the same colors is a disaster waiting to happen. All it takes is one mistake to set up a situation very dangerous to the electrician, the boat and/or the boat's users.

This is the rational behind Ancor's DC "Safety Wire" where the DC positive is red and the negative is Yellow, rather than the Black which is shared with AC neutral in the USA wiring systems.

Here are the standard wire codes (for better or worse):

In the USA:

110 Volt systems:

Hot: White
Neutral: Black
Ground: Green (or bare wire)

240V systems:

Hot#1: White
Hot#2: Red
Neutral: Black
Ground: Green (or bare wire)

In Europe (220V or 240V):

Hot: Brown
Neutral: Blue
Ground: Green/Yellow Stripe

DC:

Positive: Red
Negative: Black (or Yellow) or sometimes Blue in Euro boats.

Although not standardized, bonding wires should be a different color than the AC ground. In the USA Green/Yellow works, and on a Euro boat plain Green would be a good choice just to make them different.

Keeping to the standard is vital for anyone working on the system. Mixing and matching color codes is a very dangerous game. Using "whatever comes to hand" will eventually result in a potentially deadly error. Such stupidity would get anybody working on my boat fired--without pay--as an incompetent fool.

Are the standards perfect? No, not at all. They leave room of ambiguity that can be serious. But at least a competent electrician knows which wire colors might be confused and can be extra careful. Wiring a boat with your own "special" code, or no code at all is a serious mistake.

[Bruce K]

Originally Posted by billknny

Absolutely NOT sensible. Using Black and White wires for BOTH AC and DC current carrying wire is a TERRIBLE idea. DO NOT DO IT! There is a good reason that the USCG will not give an Marine Engineering license to someone who is functionally color blind! You have now set up a system where 100% of everyone is confused instead of just the color blind.

Having wiring where the DC and AC circuits use the same colors is a disaster waiting to happen. All it takes is one mistake to set up a situation very dangerous to the electrician, the boat and/or the boat's users.

This is the rational behind Ancor's DC "Safety Wire" where the DC positive is red and the negative is Yellow, rather than the Black which is shared with AC neutral in the USA wiring systems.

Here are the standard wire codes (for better or worse):

In the USA:

110 Volt systems:

Hot: White
Neutral: Black
Ground: Green (or bare wire)

240V systems:

Hot#1: White
Hot#2: Red
Neutral: Black
Ground: Green (or bare wire)

In Europe (220V or 240V):

Hot: Brown
Neutral: Blue
Ground: Green/Yellow Stripe

DC:

Positive: Red
Negative: Black (or Yellow) or sometimes Blue in Euro boats.

Although not standardized, bonding wires should be a different color than the AC ground. In the USA Green/Yellow works, and on a Euro boat plain Green would be a good choice just to make them different.

Keeping to the standard is vital for anyone working on the system. Mixing and matching color codes is a very dangerous game. Using "whatever comes to hand" will eventually result in a potentially deadly error. Such stupidity would get anybody working on my boat fired--without pay--as an incompetent fool.

Are the standards perfect? No, not at all. They leave room of ambiguity that can be serious. But at least a competent electrician knows which wire colors might be confused and can be extra careful. Wiring a boat with your own "special" code, or no code at all is a serious mistake.

The USA is not the world: In Australia 240v AC, Active is Brown (sometimes Red, now superceded) Neutral is Blue (sometimes Black) and Earth is Green with yellow stripe(sometimes plain green) 12v DC; Pos is usually Red but sometimes white; Neg is usually black( but occasionally brown). Previous to the change in colours for AC both AC and DC had mostly Red and Black, I never heard of any problems, in Australia we tend to think about things a bit before connecting. Also in the USA people cant spell properly ie colour and socks, and the drive on the incorrect side of the road.

[pesarsten]

Wow, I'm really confused! I always thought that in the USA on 120 volt ac circuits. WHITE IS ALWAYS THE GROUNDED POWER CONDUCTER ( NUETRAL )

Someone else please chime in to clarify.

[Bill Seal]

On my Formosa, the DC color code is BROWN / BROWN