Smartgauge vs Mastervolt Easyview-5 vs Simarine Pico

[CatNewBee]

I am very keen to read more about your findings...

[noelex 77]

I should have my Pico up and running in a few weeks so there will be a couple of user reports to compare.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

This is not rocket science any way.....
It counts all the time the current per second and the direction of the flow. Measuring the Voltage on top and knowing the capacity and chemistry (Peukert factor) it can guess the SoC at any time.

The Simarine manual doesn't have an input for the Peukert factor which is needed for accurate Ah discharge calculations. I assume it must calculate this from the C/20,C/10,C/5 capacity values you give it. The manual says that you MUST have at least two of these parameters or it will not be accurate.

I have tried hard to find anything but C/20 values for my Lifeline deep cycle AGMs, and also for other batteries. Most true deep cycle batteries only publish a C/20 capacity figure and a Peukert factor.

Also other shunt based monitors need a battery efficiency value. Just saying it is an AGM won't be accurate as AGMs are not all created equal.

[john61ct]

As the bank declines, you'd have to load test for these capacity specs anyway for them to be accurate.

Seems impractical, or an easy out for them if it turns out to be innaccurate on SoC.

Maybe they're plugging them into SmartGauge-type mystery algorithms rather than relying on the coulomb counting for estimating SoC?

The ideal would be to use those for resting readings, then use the AH in/out to update during charging or high amp draws. Once resting, revert to SG type calcs. . .

[OceanPlanet]

FWIW, we'll also be adding a Smartgauge to our increasingly complicated testing bench. I think john61ct is on to something regarding the Simarine SOC/Peukerts compensation, however we'll have to design some fast & slow discharge tests to see how the different monitors compare with their compensation.

Shot below is from a couple days ago, showing setting up of MV Masterview, Simarine Pico, existing Victron BMV/CCGX, and our show display box for the Philippi PSM

[conachair]

Don't suppose Smartgauge will be releasing their code for the masses of makers to incorporate into arduinos & ESP's any time soon..

Given that it's actually quite easy to do it seems a bit of a missed opportunity for the battery monitor makers not to include wifi & web based historical data into the devices. Very useful in watching for trends.
This from a Raspberry Pi running openplotter with a database added..

[john61ct]

While you're at it, benchmark that DIY BM

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=192740

I've also seen some FOSS projects tie into Victron's messaging.

Wouldn't it be great to control charge sources from a trusted SoC meter?

[OceanPlanet]

It's been slow going here, taking time to continually update our testing bench/system while trying to keep up with actual paying work. However we currently have the following running at the same time on the same 110Ah battery bank which we are automatically cycling with 100% charge/discharge cycles:

Victron BMV/CCGX (which controls the auto-cycling and is primary bench monitor)

Simarine Pico (including extra battery shunt, ST107 tank unit, etc.)

Mastervolt Masterview

Smartgauge.

We have a Philippi PSM here that we still need to incorporate in the mix.

This setup has been cycling for several days, allowing us to compare each systems interpretations of voltage, SOC%, TTG, etc.

Here are some pics of the setup with readings when I got to the office. We have had the Victron up & running for many months so we have that pretty much manually dialed in as a reference. As you can see the TTG figures from both MV and Simarine are quite a bit off. Since we know the battery capacity it is easy to verify what is right and what is wrong...

Simarine has sent us updated firmware to help improve the TTG calculations, however we are still working with then on that.

A long ways to go, will be updating here now & then as time allows...

[john61ct]

Fantastic work Bruce, I'm sure will be an enormously valuable contribution to the community!

[witzgall]

Wow, you can dial in the amount of poop!


Chris

Originally Posted by OceanPlanet

It's been slow going here, taking time to continually update our testing bench/system while trying to keep up with actual paying work. However we currently have the following running at the same time on the same 110Ah battery bank which we are automatically cycling with 100% charge/discharge cycles:

Victron BMV/CCGX (which controls the auto-cycling and is primary bench monitor)

Simarine Pico (including extra battery shunt, ST107 tank unit, etc.)

Mastervolt Masterview

Smartgauge.

We have a Philippi PSM here that we still need to incorporate in the mix.

This setup has been cycling for several days, allowing us to compare each systems interpretations of voltage, SOC%, TTG, etc.

Here are some pics of the setup with readings when I got to the office. We have had the Victron up & running for many months so we have that pretty much manually dialed in as a reference. As you can see the TTG figures from both MV and Simarine are quite a bit off. Since we know the battery capacity it is easy to verify what is right and what is wrong...

Simarine has sent us updated firmware to help improve the TTG calculations, however we are still working with then on that.

A long ways to go, will be updating here now & then as time allows...

[OceanPlanet]

Originally Posted by witzgall

Wow, you can dial in the amount of poop!


Chris

Glad you noticed....;-)

Yes, we're doing some tank level testing with both real and "virtual" tanks...

[john61ct]

Votronic seems to have quality monitoring gear, but it may not be worth including them, since it appears they are avoiding NA markets due to concerns about our torts liability issues.

[ReneJK]

Hi Bruce , great set up and thank you for doing this


Which one do you use as a reference and know is correct ?
I see 3 values and am wondering which one is closest



Simarine 47% @ 11.98 volt remaining 7h33min

(cant read brand) 57% @ 12 volt remaining 6h56min
Smartgauge 34%
Victron 3.7h remaining (cant read the rest)

[CatNewBee]

The % readings are incorrect by any means, because it is the definition of
when a battery is considered empty.

Some gauges consider empty on 100% of capacity, some on 50% and other even higher.

I would not make decisions based on SoC percentage of the gauge but on Ah used vs. total capacity. I consider my GEL or AGM bank "empty" and recharge needed on 30% discharge, because I want the battery to survive a longer time. Even on deep-cycle spiral cells I would not discharge below 50% of the total capacity although they can be discharged to 70% and more.

Unfortunately very few battery meters have the options to set 0% SOC threshold to a user defined value. You can trick some by entering a fraction of the real capacity, however "smart" dumb devices adjust the capacity upon measurements - so this is not working with them.

[OceanPlanet]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

Hi Bruce , great set up and thank you for doing this


Which one do you use as a reference and know is correct ?
I see 3 values and am wondering which one is closest



Simarine 47% @ 11.98 volt remaining 7h33min

(cant read brand) 57% @ 12 volt remaining 6h56min
Smartgauge 34%
Victron 3.7h remaining (cant read the rest)

The Victron is currently the most accurate, as we have it manually dialed in to the known parameters of the test battery. It simply does the math with the numbers you put in, so "garbage in, garbage out". The TTG is calculated based on the remaining capacity/current to the programmed SOC relay activation setpoint (AKA "discharge floor"). Which at the time of the photo was 0% SOC (100% DOD).

The Masterview is the one showing 57% & 6h56m. We can program the capacity into both the MV and the Simarine, however they both have something going on with their time window for averaging the current used to calculate the TTG. This is apparently what is making them over-estimate the TTG. Simarine is going to address that and send new firmware, hopefully along with modifications to allow changing the "discharge floor" target by the user. We need to let MV know the TTG issue also, will do soon.

FWIW, yesterday we got the Philippi PSM running in the mix too. It's TTG was pretty much dead on (closely matching the Victron) however the lowest you can set the discharge floor is 10% SOC (90% DOD). Which is actually understandable, as in real use you wouldn't want to discharge to 100% anyhow. Only in our testing with an expendable Firefly battery would you abuse the battery so much...;-)