FP Tobago or Wildcat MK II?

[CortoMaltese]

This is my first post in this so interesting forum. It's a wile that i am surfing and reading posts that always gave me a better idea and a new point of view regarding my doubts.
I have absolutely no experience in sailing but since i had the occasion to test a short trip on a boat, i always had the dream to have my own one.
After a lot of reading i arrived to the conclusion that there are 2 cats that i like and that fit what i think my needs (and budget) are: the Tobago and the MK 2.
Read many posts about both cats; read about some issues with the Wildcat but also read about the big qualities this boat have; read about quality of the FP but also about some limitations of this cat.

What's the opinion of you sea men with (of course) the experience that i miss comparing this 2 cats?
I like very much the Wildcat, but i really could not afford to be hit in the pocket as some owners of this cat did; i like the idea that a cat like the FP, as an appreciated company, could "hold" better value in time; i think design of the MK is more actual and for same price i can get a newer one respect the FP.....but what about reselling; i'm thinking to buy the boat and keep it for a very long time, however i don't want to misconsider this side.
What the good and bad points of each?

I hope i gave you an idea of my situation; i'm going to buy the boat around December and till then i would like to have a clear idea about the step i'm going to make. All suggestions are welcome, including different cats to analize as alternative.
Thank you very much and regards.

[Atlantic42]

Where do you plan to sail? How do you intend to use the boat? Where would you like to buy the boat? What's your budget for purchase, upgrades and cruising. How many people will be aboard?

[CortoMaltese]

I live in Brazil. The idea is to sail at the beginning only coastal; in future trips to the caribbean and hopefully to the mediterranean. Thank to my job i'll have lots of time to enjoy my boat so i guess i'll use it quite intensevely with my wife and my kid.
Where? Well, i am italian so i think that my possibilities are many (excluding Brazil due to impossible costs); have friends in south Africa that could hel me in case i get a boat there. Last week i contacted a broker in Greece where i found a FP.......
My budget is around 100.000 Euros.

[Tellie]

What do you think of a Catalac10M? There's one that just hit the market for a real good price and looks to be in real good shape.

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by Tellie

What do you think of a Catalac10M? There's one that just hit the market for a real good price and looks to be in real good shape.

hi Tellie, thanx for the suggestion but i don't like it so much, as for the Prout Snowgoose. Maybe the look a bit too old style.....don't know....

[Factor]

The FP - every time - and every where

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by Factor

The FP - every time - and every where

Thank you Factor, i'd appreciate very much also the reasons (saw your other post ).
So far, reading and reading this is what i can say about this 2 cats:

FP: confortable, good quality (however some people say lightly build), not very fast, should be adapted for blue water, good reselling, no structural issues, a bit dated design (for some), a bir noisy, wasted spaces, underpowered motorization.

WILDCAT: fast, much boat for that money (very common sentence), modern design, big cabins, many reported problems (not only the bumfuzzle), resell may be a problem (depreciation), factory out of business, blue water ready, a bit cheaper than FP.

This is more or less what i got till now, do u agree with this points?
Thanx

[Talbot]

I would not take a wildcat even if it was free.

The FP nice modern design, but built light and will thus have a reduced life.

Catalac 10m - a boat built to last. interior is a bit less smart than the FP now, but in 10 years, the catalac will not have deteriorated significantly.

If your intentions are coastal low useage - the FP wins hands down

If your intentions are long distance and long term use. I would think again about the Catalac.

[paulrack]

I reckon if one has a limited budget, the Wildcat is one boat which can give you good value if one finds the right one. You would need to go into the purchase with your eyes open and a proper surveyor who is specicically focussing on the known problems with the Wildcats. There are a number in Cape Town, some have had issues and others not. I have also seen a number on the hard having delam issues fixed. Hopefully once done the problem is solved. As the boat is older it is also likely that any problems that were there would have surfaced. The bumfuzzle epidode did a lot of damage to the perception of the boat, the upside is that they all got hit on the second hand market. I met an owner of a Wildcat while sailing in Croatia. This guy lived on the boat and loved it and had no issues. There are also a lot that had delam issues. There are a couple for sale in Cape Town and I am sure prices are very negotiable. I personally hate the look of the Catalac and would not look at one of them. I am sure however they would outlast most of the currrent more modern cats.

[fareweather]

Other than the obvious issues with the Wildcat look at the hulls and deck. They are rounded with no rub rail and no toe rail, major faux paus (literally) in my opinion.

If you are the kind of person that can dock perfectly every time the rub rail is no issue, if you don't ever drop anything on deck the lack of a toe rail is no issue either. Of course I am being facetious, they are requirements on any boat I would own.

Based on the high likelyhood of delam issues that will cost you possibly 30-50k to fix right I would put a max price on any Wildcat at 75k. Look at the price drop and turn over of the Bumfuzzle cat if you think I am exaggerating (and that one already has the delam issues fixed!). If the price is right it might be worth rolling the dice.

[Tellie]

I disagree with Talbot, I'll take all the free WildCats!
I do agree that the FPs are built lighter than other Cats. But in my opinion it's the level of maintanace and upgrades you're willing to give to any boat that determines it's longevity.

[CortoMaltese]

First of all i want to thank u all for the precious feedback!

To say the truth, i really like the Wildcat: the shape, interiors....front back....cabins: if it wasn't for the issues i would go for it without thinking too much. From one side i agree with you, PAUL, when you say that the Bumfuzzle episode gave a severe (too) punishment to the Wildcat but, from the other side, not the only case. Maybe it's just as you say, just a matter of luck and yes, i do think that a 6/7 years cat should have manifested the problem; and yes, i found quite nice priced Wildcats in SA.

@FAREWEATHER: I guess that a way is the one to find a perfect Wildcat for a nice price just in case (). Wow 30/50k to fix delamination.......scaring, however, some time ago i found one even cheeper than 75k......but go see why!! How much you would pay, as maximum price for a Wildcat?

@TALBOT/TELLIE: the fact that FP are lightly build is kind an issue too i guess. Starting considering that i will buy a 12/13 years cat the idea that is lightly build doesn't make me feel very calm......i mean, as i'm thinking to keep the boat for a long wile and mostly cruising in the atlantic.....well, not much better than a fixed Wildcat i guess.....at the end quite soon it will be an old lightly buil cat, right?
About the Catalac, even if i read that it's a very succeded cat, i don't like much the shape; starting to look quite old and getting a middle '80 one i'll soon own a 30+ years boat......

Anyway what i noticed till now, surfing the forum and googling, even if i found many testimonials about Wildcat, good and bad ones, i didn't find much feed about the Tobago 35; is it maybe a non well succeded FP cat?

Again thak you all for the infos and hope to get more!
Regards

[paulrack]

$30k to $50k seems a lot to fix delam issues. If I remember correctly enquiring on the repair of one Wildcat I saw on the hard in Cape Town that was having a lot of work done fixing delam, the price was R100k (About $15k). I am sure there is a big price difference between getting it fixed in South Africa or in the US or Carribean.

[Intentional Drifter]

If you're looking at cruising and keeping the boat for quite awhile, I think you might be best to look at older boats that have proven records. There are a few out there in your price range. For example:

1988 Catana Catana 39 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1992 Kennex Owner's Version Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1989 Prout Snow Goose ELITE Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1996 Dean 400 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

For not much more, you could get into a 39' Privilege and this would be definite step up from both the F-P and the Wildcat, in may ways.

1994 Alliaura PRIVILEGE Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1991 Privilege 12m Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

ID

[CortoMaltese]

@INTERNATIONAL DR: thanx! I liked alot the Dean 40......and of course the Privilege. The only problem is that i started looking for a 33' cat and now i'm into the 40'......if i go on this way till december (when i'm planning to buy the boat) i'll be into 50s (in the drems in that case as my budget wont change).
However, from the other side i guess no big difference talking about maintainance and docking between a 38 or 40, right?
A Privilege that needs some works to be done into could be somehow interesting......but i like very much the Dean......starting my full immertion in Deans!!