FP Tobago or Wildcat MK II?

[CortoMaltese]

So, made some research on Dean40 cats,on the forum of course and googleing; i found mostly good opinionsand i'd say that i'm shortlisting also this cat.
From the other side i think that i am quite disappointed about FP; i thought they were much better cats but seems that the light building makes them good cats only bought new.
Hope to get more opinions about Dean40.
regards

PS: ocean cheetah.......beautifull and impossible.....am i right?

[paulrack]

You also seem to be able to get good value on the Dean 400. I must say I have been disappointed with the French cats, I know it is not fair to generalise but the new Lagoon I have seen have seen has had so many issues with it, a number of them structural. Admittedly the factory has taken responsibility for sorting it out. The reality is due to the natue of some of them I would never trust the boat even after repairs. I am in the process of getting a 40ft catamaran built. The quality of the work, attention to detail and quality of the fittings is in a different league. I think this is the difference between a boat that is built with passion and one that is built for profit.

[CortoMaltese]

Yes, the interesting side of the south african boats is also the price (found a Dean40 for around 100.000 euro); generally quite affordable for what you get and even fairly negociable for what i saw till now.
Reading about the FP Athena: some say maybe one of the best FP in the small range......well beside the engines inside the cabins.....opinions?

About getting the cat built: i think that it's one of the best ways and i, living in Brazil, i might have the possibility to get a fine boat for an afordable price. What worries me is the finish and the safety of the final product. I think that commissioning the boat built can be possible only having 100% security about who is going to build and, in my case, i'm not so sure.

[SearenitySail]

While looking for a catamaran in the 35' range, I considered both the Tobago 35 and Wildcat 35 MKIII even though both had more beam than practical for my coastal cruising plans and "backyard" cruising ground (not permitted to drop a mooring, so must find private home or marina docking). In addition, the widest beam that could be hauled by a marina within a few minutes drive from my house was 17'--so I really limited my choices. Crew preference for galley-up configuration further limited choices.

While the Lagoon 35ccc was my first choice all along, there were only 11 built before the Jeanneau-Lagoon split (and Lagoon went on to hit a commercial home run in sales with the 380). So I did consider several other catamarans in the 35' range.

Having chartered the Tobago 35 twice (both 2-cabin and 3-cabin configurations) this was also considered, though still a little wider than I could dock locally. I even went so far as to pay for a survey on a 1994 T35 in Annapolis, but the owner would not negotiate on the price and it needed more work than I was willing to budget for (it took him another year to sell it).

Due to interior finish/linings IMHO, I would not purchase a Tobago 35 earlier than 1995. Earlier models had the material headliner in the salon. 1996 and newer had molded fiberglass liner in the salon area (wipe down, no mildew, dried out glue and liner falling etc. The engine compartment of the T35 also is large with easy access although you have to go through the head. Cabin storage is limited though for long term cruising, though you can put a hanging bar in the engine compartment. I actually have more room in my Lagoon cabin and head, though.

The main halyard is on the mast on the T35, as it is on many boats. On my Lagoon, all lines lead back to the helm.

I had a broker email me pictures of the Wildcat. While not as serious about this boat as the T35 I was looking at all cat options on the market, even considering up to 38 feet. The Mark III looked nice, but all the wood in the interior looked daunting! I am not a traditionalist when it comes to interior finish. Give me bright, smooth fiberglass lining that I can wipe clean and go sailing--not worry about maintaining wood! The interior pictures of the Wildcat showed many water stains on the interior woodwork. I could only imagine this could be due to some of the quality control problems that have been reported about the Wildcats and it quickly dropped from my considered list.

A 35' cat does have some sailing disadvantages compared to some of the larger cats suggested above. Budget is an obvious consideration, as is size and cruising considerations, accommodations, number of crew--basically everything well-stated above.

The bottom line is--do your homework, and that is the easy part. The scary part is actually taking the plunge and buy the boat. Many times that paralyzes you--you are afraid to buy the "wrong" boat. If your cruising intentions are just coastal cruising, either boat should suffice if you can get it at a price well within your budget. If you later decide to "trade up" though, I'm pretty sure you will be able to sell the FP a lot easier.

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by SearenitySail

The bottom line is--do your homework, and that is the easy part. The scary part is actually taking the plunge and buy the boat. Many times that paralyzes you--you are afraid to buy the "wrong" boat. If your cruising intentions are just coastal cruising, either boat should suffice if you can get it at a price well within your budget. If you later decide to "trade up" though, I'm pretty sure you will be able to sell the FP a lot easier.

Thank you for input.
Unfortunatelly when the budget is not too rich many points of view must be considered. In my case i am very worried about how you say, getting the wrong boat. After reading so much i am actually mostly worried about getting a boat that gives me problems in future than getting a boat that doesnt fit my needs. For example, as i said, i like the Wildcat very much and it is in my budget range, however the risk about buying problems together with the boat scares me alot.

In any case yesterday i made a sad discovering......nothing related boats directly but the country i live, Brazil. Seems that there is no way to get a foreign boat imported. This is now opening a totally different and new situation fo my case. I am a foreigner resident and was informed that i could keep boat during 2 years long with a temporary permit......now looks like things are much more complicated. Just discovered this thing and i'm really frustrated because the cat market in Brazil is near to zero....

Now i have to find the way to manage this situation.....

[CortoMaltese]

unbeieveble!
Imagine the situation in this country (Brazil); beautifull country with neverending coasts.
It's forbidden to import foreign used boats; boats with foreign flag can stay in brazilian waters during maximum 6 months, afterwords the have to leave.
Foreign built new boats can be imported paying 100% fee for nationalization taxes (long and boring process).

Let's go to national catamaran production: mostly very low level productions; only a few good ones at stunning prices. Just to give an idea i found 2 cats (37') produced by almost unknown builders with even no pictures of finished boats: prices around 300k US$.

Finally i found few Fountaine Pajot priced around 4 times more than what could be paid for same product in the rest of the world......
Suggestions? Buying a life vest?

[Intentional Drifter]

Wow! Now, that's Protectionist, with a capital P! Unfortunately, doesn't sound like there's much to protect.

Could you: Buy a foreign-flagged boat, outside of Brazil? Could you then bring it into Brazil for 6 months and then leave again? Could you buy it outside of Brazil and never actually bring it into the country?

ID

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter

Wow! Now, that's Protectionist, with a capital P! Unfortunately, doesn't sound like there's much to protect.

Could you: Buy a foreign-flagged boat, outside of Brazil? Could you then bring it into Brazil for 6 months and then leave again? Could you buy it outside of Brazil and never actually bring it into the country?

ID

Just today i went to the marina to ask directly about what could be done. Every thing is confirmed but can get my boat here with a trick (sad!): get the boat and each 6 months go to a foreign port and come back.....might be a way even if not so easy.....
Of course i could get my boat abroad and live her out; however my idea is to use my boat always i can without having to travel to get her.....
Well i guess that my only way is to live like a gipsy without a fix marina till things change......

[Sonosailor]

I have a link on my website that provides my opinions regarding my Tobago 35: "Cat Tales:
Cat Tales

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by Sonosailor

I have a link on my website that provides my opinions regarding my Tobago 35: "Cat Tales:
Cat Tales

Thanx!

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by CortoMaltese

First of all i want to thank u all for the precious feedback! ......

Again thak you all for the infos and hope to get more!
Regards

On the Wild Cat... A friend of mine owned a Wildcat 350 for a few years. The purchase survey discovered the delamination. He bought the boat anyway, put her on the hard and in two weeks fixed the problem himself. Years later, he sold the boat, and the new survey pronounced the hulls perfect. It was no big deal when you plan for it and deal with it immediately. The main problem with this boat is that it's 21 feet wide.

On the Catalac. Yes, they are old, but it's the best built boat of the all the models mentioned and they are insulated. You should read what Richard Woods writes of the Catalac 10 meter. The builder read the designer's plans incorrectly and doubled the amount of glass content in the hulls. They are heavy, but built like battleships and are only 15'3" wide. In America, if a Catalac is in good condition it sells immediately despite a depressed boat market.

[CortoMaltese]

TROPIC CAT: thank you for suggestions. Actually i'm quite sure about what my steps will be. After reading so many suggestions and threads all around, i made my definitive (hope!) shortlist:

Privilege 37
FP Tobago either Athena.

With a limited budget there is not really too much to choose between specially in my case: a cat that i'd like to keep long time, well built and be able, in future, to make ocean crossings specially the Atlantic.
Since here seems that Privilege is one of the best cats in my more or less budget range; well built, seaworthy and even if with some years in the hulls the way it's built should give some tranquillity in terms of boat conditions.
I like FPs very much however i read too much about their "light built" and that they are not so good boats as Privilege specially when we are talking about an used boat that would be kept during many years.

I finally decided not to go into Wildcat even if like it alot: here budget comes again into the dance. I'm afraid to buy problems and face expensive delamination/osmosis issues soon or later.

Finally another cat that i really liked very much is the Dean 40, but maybe a bit too big.
Well, now i have some months to really look and definitively decide but, as said i think it's 75% Privilege, 25% FP.
Any other suggestion is very welcome.
Regards

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

On the Catalac. Yes, they are old, but it's the best built boat of the all the models mentioned and they are insulated. You should read what Richard Woods writes of the Catalac 10 meter. The builder read the designer's plans incorrectly and doubled the amount of glass content in the hulls. They are heavy, but built like battleships and are only 15'3" wide. In America, if a Catalac is in good condition it sells immediately despite a depressed boat market.

War reading around about the Catalac. Yes, sounds really as a great boat but....as i'm planning to keep the bot for many years, what about sailing or then try to sell a boat with +40 years?

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by CortoMaltese

War reading around about the Catalac. Yes, sounds really as a great boat but....as i'm planning to keep the bot for many years, what about sailing or then try to sell a boat with +40 years?

This of course is an unanswerable question. However, after 26 years, the hull of most Catalacs show less effects than some boats half their age. Woodwork on some boats has deteriorated, but where they have been looked after, this is not a problem (nothing different there either!)Naturally things like upholstery, headlinings, electrics engines will have needed replacement at some stage during the life, but that is equally true of the other contenders.

What is valid is that the Catalac is much cheaper today than those others, thus although the % depreciation may be higher (personally I suspect not) in actual cash terms the effect should be no worse than the others, and potentially better.

This is of course all in my own opinion, but I owned a 9m Catalac for over 20 years, and am still a member of the UK Multihull Cruising Association that developed from the original Bobcat and Catalac Cruising Association.