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[Hakan]

Jon..
You'll plugin oeSENC:
https://opencpn.org/OpenCPN/plugins/oesenc.html
oeSENC Charts are here:

https://o-charts.org/shop/index.php?...gory&id_lang=4

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

By "state" I mean that it will wake up looking the same as when it was shut down. What I think you're saying is that this is only true if I use Chart Groups, & select a group withOUT mbTiles before I shut down.



Getting OpenCPN to remember various parts of its state (width of columns, sort order, size & position of dialogs, etc) is something I've been fighting for for some time. It's getting better, but only slowly...



But there's a larger issue here with mbTiles. They can put a considerable load on the graphics system, especially with several loaded. IMHO, if OpenCPN doesn't want to remember their individual on/off states, then they should default to OFF, & the user can then turn them on as needed. This jumping through a Chart Groups hoop is ... a slightly ridiculous hack, IMO.

Jon,

Chart groups is not a hack. It lets each user control how and when they see charts. It will likely solve your problem if you learn to use it. You cannot expect any program to be a mind reader. The groups feature was created to deal with the issue you have raised.

If you have tons of mbtiles then maybe you also need a faster computer.

Imagine if O worked the way you want. Then there would be hundreds of people mad because O “turned off” their mbtiles charts after a restart. I don’t see how your idea can satisfy most users. Learn about groups and then let’s talk about how that can be improved.

[rgleason]

Jon,
Regarding the setup of chart groups, I have a few suggestions which have worked well for me.

1. In Options>Charts>Chart Files add a separate pathname for each batch of charts that you would like to use. I keep it one level down from my chart directory, but also enter paths that are two levels down, such as charts/enc/cg01 and charts/rnc/cg03. I have a separate directory for kap outside of charts it is "C:/data-dart/chart-kap" This keeps kap files out of my charts unless I want them.

2. I do not have a "C:/data-dart/chart" path listed because I want to be more refined than that.

3. Options>Chart Groups I create a new Chart Groups with appropriate names, and use the more refined pathnames above. Some of your chart groups could be more refined than using just C:\data-dart\chart-kap, since you have so many.

3. Also I have an MT (empty) chart group. but I have add a single small chart on the other side of the world to that, to make it work and eliminate the message. (Bdbcat's smart suggestion).

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Jon, Chart groups is not a hack. It lets each user control how and when they see charts. It will likely solve your problem if you learn to use it. You cannot expect any program to be a mind reader. The groups feature was created to deal with the issue you have raised.

If you have tons of mbtiles then maybe you also need a faster computer.

Imagine if O worked the way you want. Then there would be hundreds of people mad because O “turned off” their mbtiles charts after a restart. I don’t see how your idea can satisfy most users. Learn about groups and then let’s talk about how that can be improved.

TDan, I didn't mean that chart groups were a hack - I meant that having to use Chart Groups in order to achieve what OpenCPN SHOULD be doing (preserving its state & waking up the way it was shut down) is hack-ish.

I only load OpenCPN with the charts I'm using, but that includes 5 different mbTiles for the same area (ArcGIS, Bing, GE, CMap, & Navionics). Since all of these are opaque, it makes no sense at all to have them all active at the same time.

IMHO, OpenCPN should wake up in the state it was shut down, including the state of any loaded mbTiles. But in handling mbTiles, if its viewport (display) has multiple mbTiles, then they should wake up turned OFF, so the user can decide which (single mbTile) to turn on. This is much better than the current scheme of OpenCPN waking up with ALL mbTiles turned on, & the user having to turn most of them off just to get back to reality.

OpenCPN seems to remember the state of KAPs, & whether I'm looking at KAPs or CM93 (which is why I always shut it down with CM93 displayed, not KAPs). Why can't it remember the state of its mbTiles?

[transmitterdan]

Jon,

Honestly now I have no idea what you are talking about. Can I get your mbtiles files so I can try to see what you are seeing.


I have mbtiles but no slow down at startup at all.

[bcn]

In clase of vector or raster charts - forget a moment about mbTiles - when covering the same area with several sets of charts of the same type - raster or vector - those will show up together if you don't use chart groups in order to distinguish between the different sets.

For example sometimes I'm getting plain S-57, S-63 and oeSENC for the same part of the world at a time. You will have to select the individual charts then manually. And after a shut-down/start-up cycle they are all back there together.

This is not different at all from the mbTiles scenario. The only solution are chart groups for the different candidates or chart sources then.

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Jon, Honestly now I have no idea what you are talking about. Can I get your mbtiles files so I can try to see what you are seeing.

I have mbtiles but no slow down at startup at all.

TDan, I can't really send you my mbTiles right now, as my internet is severely constrained (& we're actually up on the hard). Also, it could easily be my 4GB of KAPs (rather than my 5GB of mbTiles) that are slowing me down.

I made my mbTiles from SAS Planet with Sat2Chart. SAS has MANY sources of imagery. My favorites are ArcGIS, Bing, GE, CMap, & Navionics. So I took all my existing routes for making GE KAPs with GE2KAP & ran them through Sat2Chart against each of those 5 maps in SAS. None of the mbTiles are transparent - they're all opaque. But I want to be able to switch easily between those mbTiles in OpenCPN, as stuff that shows up in one map sometimes doesn't show up on others (which is why we're on the hard). So at any given time I'm likely to have 5 different mbTiles up, all covering the same area but showing imagery from 5 different maps. But I only want to see ONE of those maps at a time.

Does this help you see my issues?

What I'd REALLY like is a switch so Luddites like me can have our mbTiles behave the way KAPs behave (only one at a time, & clicking on KAPs or CM93 takes you out of the mbTile, the way the piano keys have always worked in the past), but those who use transparency (both of them) can have them display the way they do today.

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by bcn

In clase of vector or raster charts - forget a moment about mbTiles - when covering the same area with several sets of charts of the same type - raster or vector - those will show up together if you don't use chart groups in order to distinguish between the different sets.

For example sometimes I'm getting plain S-57, S-63 and oeSENC for the same part of the world at a time. You will have to select the individual charts then manually. And after a shut-down/start-up cycle they are all back there together.

This is not different at all from the mbTiles scenario. The only solution are chart groups for the different candidates or chart sources then.

BCN, I don't have any S57, S63, or oeSENC charts. But I do have KAPs (raster) & CM93 (vector). OpenCPN always seems to remember which I was looking at when it was shut down, & it wakes up with that one selected when it next wakes up.

But OpenCPN's handling of mbTiles is very different. It wakes up with ALL mbTiles active EVERY time it wakes up. As a professional SDET, I would class this as a bug (unless someone can show me a spec). OpenCPN should remember the state of any mbTiles when it shuts down, & wake up in the same state, with ONLY those mbTiles that were active when it was shut down showing.

What's so difficult about this? OpenCPN does it for KAPs vs. CM93. Just do the same thing for mbTiles (& any other chart types).

[bcn]

Jon..

with raster = .kap the behavior is the same. If you get several raster charts for the same region and similar scale they will show up all together. And you need to pick the relevant or interesting one. Same as in the case of vector charts.
Hide them, show them, clicks on the chart piano...

CM93 is a bit different as it is counting as a third type of charts and quilts with raster and vector. But also in this case you will need to select manually which chart you want to see when talking about concurrent coverages.

After a wake-up your are always back on step one. What is logical as OCPN remembers your viewport and the chart settings (not for an individual chart) on restart. The "hidden" property of a chart or cell at runtime is not remembered.
Templates likewise.

All this is of course somehow special in the case of OpenCPN as with commercial products you will get mostly just one or two choices for charts.

As Thomas said some posts before: chart groups are governed by short cuts 0,1,2,3,4...
Just one click. Really not a complication.

Hubert

[transmitterdan]

Jon,

I really think chart groups is the solution. Put each set of your 5 types of mbtiles images into their own individual folders at the same directory level. Then create a group for each directory. You can flip between them rapidly by changing the group. And your last visible group will be remembered at restart.

[cagney]

IMHO, OpenCPN should wake up in the state it was shut down, including the state of any loaded mbTiles. But in handling mbTiles, if its viewport (display) has multiple mbTiles, then they should wake up turned OFF, so the user can decide which (single mbTile) to turn on. This is much better than the current scheme of OpenCPN waking up with ALL mbTiles turned on, & the user having to turn most of them off just to get back to reality.

It sounds to me like you are using quilting mode, which is the default. Have you tried using single chart mode with mbTiles?

Thomas

[Jon Hacking]

Thomas, how would turning off quilting help?

Yes, of course I'm using quilting. That was the feature that made me realize that OpenCPN was real enough to use as my main navigation tool.

[transmitterdan]

Quilting off will only show one chart under the boat. Quilting shows all visible charts. It takes less CPU to show one chart.

[cagney]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

Thomas, how would turning off quilting help?

Yes, of course I'm using quilting. That was the feature that made me realize that OpenCPN was real enough to use as my main navigation tool.

Because then you can control exactly which mbtile chart you are using. Closing down in this mode starts you up next time with just that mbtile chart you used when closing, not a quilt of all your mbtiles, if you have more than one in your group or don't use groups.
Also.....single-chart mode does not work exactly as other charts, depending on how the mbtilechart is designed.
I'm right now looking at Noaa's mbtile chart for S Florida, which consists of all the normal raster charts "merged" into one unit. Selecting this mbtile chart in single-chart mode and zooming in/out is like using all the standard kap charts for the area in quilt mode. O only outlines the mbtiles sets, not the individual "charts"( or zoom levels ) in the set.

Noaa's mbtiles can be downloaded through the built in Chart Downloader.
Quite big though, ~500 mb.

This may, or may not, help you, depending on how your mbtiles are designed.

Thomas

[transmitterdan]

I think it is really important for the mbtiles folks to understand the best way to create tile sets before jumping all over the developers. There are many examples of poorly designed tile sets out there.

I don’t personally use mbtiles much. But it is crazy to me to shove 4-10GB of image data down OpenCPNs throat and then bitch about rendering speed.

A hi res screen only needs about 20MB of pixel data. Many of these mbtiles have way too much detail for the zoom level because the tile set builders are not optimizing the resolution for the zoom level.