Equipment list for Pacific crossing

[Tidjian]

Thanks again for all that advice.

In response to steering the boat. I was thinking about a windvane system. Some people said I don't need it, others say I do. It would be nice to be able to sleep at some point without having to worry. Are manufactured versions better or can you make a better one yourself?

As for rolling I expected in bad enough weather she might roll. I was hoping the investment in a para tech sea anchor will help keep her steady. I had planned to ensure she is capable of rolling in the safest way I can. I had planned on water sealing all hatches and vents coming into the boat. Then testing it as best I can. Also everything and anything is going to be latched down. Right now there's about 5 areas where seats lift up inside the boat for storage. All would be outfitted with hinges on the inside and strap latching on the outside so nothing flies out. As for the cushion seats themselves maybe I can Velcro them down to the wood so they aren't bouncing all over if she rolls. It is a small boat for sure and me being around 6'2 it's a little tight inside. Water and heavier things would be strapped down even inside those areas so it isn't bouncing around. Batteries the same. My biggest concern is keeping water out of the boat and the mass snapping. Worst would be the mass snapping at the base and tearing a hole in the roof.

At my size comfort in any small boat will be limited. I'm a heavy haul truck driver so I'm used to being in a somewhat crammed space for 13 hours a day and then sleeping in a bunk at night. Time away from home and the small space won't break me. Bad squalls or sailing into a hurricane do concern me but mostly because I've never sailed in one. I'm not really afraid of dying but I'm also not stupid or suicidal. I intend on making the trip not simply sailing out and drowning. If that was my intention I wouldn't bother asking for advice and help where I know I'm lacking.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

Thanks again for all that advice.

In response to steering the boat. I was thinking about a windvane system. Some people said I don't need it, others say I do. It would be nice to be able to sleep at some point without having to worry. Are manufactured versions better or can you make a better one yourself?

As for rolling I expected in bad enough weather she might roll. I was hoping the investment in a para tech sea anchor will help keep her steady. I had planned to ensure she is capable of rolling in the safest way I can. I had planned on water sealing all hatches and vents coming into the boat. Then testing it as best I can. Also everything and anything is going to be latched down. Right now there's about 5 areas where seats lift up inside the boat for storage. All would be outfitted with hinges on the inside and strap latching on the outside so nothing flies out. As for the cushion seats themselves maybe I can Velcro them down to the wood so they aren't bouncing all over if she rolls. It is a small boat for sure and me being around 6'2 it's a little tight inside. Water and heavier things would be strapped down even inside those areas so it isn't bouncing around. Batteries the same. My biggest concern is keeping water out of the boat and the mass snapping. Worst would be the mass snapping at the base and tearing a hole in the roof.

At my size comfort in any small boat will be limited. I'm a heavy haul truck driver so I'm used to being in a somewhat crammed space for 13 hours a day and then sleeping in a bunk at night. Time away from home and the small space won't break me. Bad squalls or sailing into a hurricane do concern me but mostly because I've never sailed in one. I'm not really afraid of dying but I'm also not stupid or suicidal. I intend on making the trip not simply sailing out and drowning. If that was my intention I wouldn't bother asking for advice and help where I know I'm lacking.

You don't sail in hurricanes, you avoid them

You aren't still talking about using that little Grampian 23 are you?
If so, take it to the coast and sail during your average 20 plus knot wind day and see how she does.

I was sailing this past summer and got caught by a small but rather strong squall. It took about 20 minutes or so to get too me after I saw the clouds pictured below w/sun. (winds to around 40) Fortunately for me I anchored early that day and was in a pretty protected spot with offshore winds. 10 -15 miles out in the bay would have been different.

Also, this was just a squall lasting less than an hour. Think about if it lasted for days like a strong front coming through

Btw, my small boat weighs/displaces 3.5 tons and has a long/full keel

You probably need to do some testing on your boat near shore in a bit of wind/weather before venturing offshore (crossing the Pacific)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okRZs6os5Eo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gcZKr25UUM

[thomm225]

Here's what's left of a storm offshore and the boat I believe is around 70' and is heavy as hell (and has a full keel). The damage is due to a couple knockdowns it has already taken.

The view is from the rescue helo which was unable to assist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-4R...Y6zjo9CZrOe5A1

[Tidjian]

To whoever brought up the you won't see what's underneath that could cause you problems. Is this tieing in with the comment about submerged shipping containers? Is that common in the ocean? Wouldn't radar aka sonar detect them? There must be a way to set your radar so that it alarms or alerts you of something that size in front or below you? Also wouldn't hitting a shipping container at a bad angle be bad for just about any boat? I did watch that Robert Redford movie. Seemed like that was a combination of the worst possible events that could take place. Although there was a lot of commentary about the movie being complete ********. In any event I didn't think a shipping container would float very long considering they aren't exactly air tight. I've moved them in the past and most of them are rusted out or have holes and other structural issues. You would think they would sink relatively quickly.

Also thanks for the videos. I've been watching quite a few of people hitting squalls in the South Pacific. I was advised in whatever boat I take to sail the coastline down to Mexico then resupply. That will give me a good idea of what to expect. Leave in late August and then hold up down there until November. After that if I haven't decided to throw in the towel I can make for Hawaii. Then from there head to the Phillipines.

[Tidjian]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Here's what's left of a storm offshore and the boat I believe is around 70' and is heavy as hell (and has a full keel). The damage is due to a couple knockdowns it has already taken.


The view is from the rescue helo which was unable to assist.

How common are these bad squalls out there? Are they a regular occurrence or does luck and season play a big factor in? I don't live in a hurricane zone so I'm not familiar with overly severe weather conditions along the coast even. Another concern that brings to mind is I've read the Phillipines suffer some pretty steady storms during their hurricane season. I'm not sure if most people go there and leave before hurricane season or if they just dock their boat and hope for the best. I've read a few articles about heading down around Australia during hurricane season. My intention was to go to the Philippines and from there to the gulf of Thailand. After that I'm unsure. I originally was going to depart the east coast but I've read the Panama can run $2000 for passage. Also I think I would have to depart as early as March to go down there. That's too soon.

Anyway in the event I don't find a more suitable boat I'm sure my Grampian can make it down the western coast to Mexico. It would give me a good idea of whether I truly believe I can make the journey. If not I'll either sail back or sell the boat down south and buy a bigger one or fly home. The options are plentiful.

[estarzinger]

On 'small boats' . . . . we had good friends who went rtw with 2 children (so 2 adults + 2 children) on a cal 24 (dave and jaja martin). Webb has just gone rtw on a moore 24. This size boat was much more common back in the '80's (a 37'er was a grand big boat back then) and it is certainly feasible.

As to equipment - self steering is very nice, back then it was rated the most important 'equipmet' next to ground tackle. However, you can 'sheet to tiller' steer, you typically just end up going a slower average speed made good.

As to navigation, I would go either ipad or cpm.

I would personally skip the raft (in fact we never carried one in our voyaging). But that can be argued (and has been) all sorts of ways.

Rain catching is important for this size boat (and its tanks) - read up on it.

For comms - 'back in the day' many people (including ourselves) had none, you went to sea and you enjoyed the little bubble of quiet. If you feel the need for some sort of comms, I would look at the inreach - it is great value for 2 way comms.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

How common are these bad squalls out there? Are they a regular occurrence or does luck and season play a big factor in? I don't live in a hurricane zone so I'm not familiar with overly severe weather conditions along the coast even. Another concern that brings to mind is I've read the Phillipines suffer some pretty steady storms during their hurricane season. I'm not sure if most people go there and leave before hurricane season or if they just dock their boat and hope for the best. I've read a few articles about heading down around Australia during hurricane season. My intention was to go to the Philippines and from there to the gulf of Thailand. After that I'm unsure. I originally was going to depart the east coast but I've read the Panama can run $2000 for passage. Also I think I would have to depart as early as March to go down there. That's too soon.

Anyway in the event I don't find a more suitable boat I'm sure my Grampian can make it down the western coast to Mexico. It would give me a good idea of whether I truly believe I can make the journey. If not I'll either sail back or sell the boat down south and buy a bigger one or fly home. The options are plentiful.

Maybe you can worry about weather conditions in the Philippines, hurricanes etc after you've sailed your boat down to Mexico.

You will probably have gained some experience by then so you will at least know which are the right questions to ask

No trying to be rude, it's just the way it is.

Most of us have been there that are self taught. You either get some training or keep making mistakes until you learn and hopefully don't get in too much trouble/danger in the process

Maybe even sail across a 20-30 mile bay or two before thinking about crossing an ocean

[Tidjian]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Ok, I had a Columbia 24 for many years and now have a Columbia 29.
First off, go to atomvoyages.com and see what Mr. Baldwin has written and how he has modified some pocket cruisers.
Second, the Grampian is not a good choice. Sorry. And this is coming from someone who has done some goofy things. In my youth a friend of mine outfitted his Columbia 24 to go to Hawaii (from Santa Barbara.) We headed out for a few days and my poor friend was so sea-sick the whole time we decided to return to try it some other time. But the boat was fine and was just barely able to carry all the stuff we needed. But we didn't need much. In those days (1981) we had no electronics to speak of. No solar. No GPS. And only a home-made QME windvane (which worked great BTW)
The Columbia 26 MK1 is a possibility, yes. And to my mind, has the advantage of the outboard well which is covered and with some minor modification allows the engine to be tilted up and remain enclosed. You'll need all the interior space you can find so not having an inboard is not necessarily a deal breaker. You need to know what you are looking at in terms of how the boat was constructed and many of the 60s boats are still strong. That particular 26 is also a little faster than the tubbier life-boat kind of designs. Speed and tankage/stowage are the two main liabilities in a pocket cruiser imo.
Now if your requirement is a good "bluewater" boat you can also trailer behind a good pick-up well the Columbia 26, and others in that range and displacement could work. But realistically I think you are better advised to get a boat that is in the displacement neighborhood of 6000# and up, and with a displacement to length ratio of at least 300.
Here are some boats I'd push you toward:
COLUMBIA 26 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
ARIEL 26 (PEARSON) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
well, heck, here's Baldwin's list, he's done the homework...
Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

This thread may have some useful stuff too for you:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...al-153058.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-175409-2.html

Cruisers & Sailing Forums - The Small Boat Cruiser

Good luck and don't let old farts like me discourage you too much. It's a lot of fun to go out and make your own way, we'll just try to steer you clear of the really big and dumb mistakes that we survived.

Thanks again for the help. I've browsed the list and I've searched all morning 1000 miles around me. Unfortunately I can't find anything on that list up for sale yet. Doesn't mean there isn't I'm just not seeing it. I still have a few months as I can't do much in the winter up here. So I can continue shopping around.

I did however find a C&C 27 Mark 1 in my price range and not far from me. Engine rebuilt and a ton of upgrades. Would probably save me money in the long run since he's replaced most of the rigging and lines this past year. She's not on his list but it is a heavier displacement boat with a much heavier keel. I was reading up on it and a lot of people are saying she's a strong boat with good handle in bad weather. A couple forum posts were saying she is definitely sea worthy. Any opinions on this?

It also comes with a trailer which is a big plus for me. I know a lot of people are saying trailered sailboats aren't ocean cruisers but again on a budget I don't have thousands of dollars to ship a boat to the west coast. If it isn't there all ready and I can't tow it myself it's out of the question. Not to mention anything untrailerable is probably 30'+ and well out of my small budget.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

I'm sure my Grampian can make it down the western coast to Mexico. It would give me a good idea of whether I truly believe I can make the journey.

long distance coastal sailing (to mexico) would certainly teach you some stuff, but do please realize it is a whole different kettle of fish than ocean sailing. In many ways ocean sailing is easier (less hard stuff to possibly run into). Also realize that the first (two) legs off the west coast are longest offshore legs in common bluewater cruising. We later have done a 9000 mile non-stop leg, but it was down in the southern ocean and not on the common legs.

We had yet another friend who sailed rtw in a 19' decked over life boat with a junk rig. And he was in fact quite comfortable and happy sailor. You really can do this is just about anything. It is really much much more about skipper attitude.

How common are these bad squalls out there?

Survival squalls (white squalls) and survival storms are very uncommon. Gale force is reasonably common, but storm force is pretty uncommon - many people make it around the world without actually seeing true storm force.

Related to that - the store bought drag devices (paras and drogues) were not very common 'back in the day'. People made due when they needed to (dragging anchor warps and such if they thought it would help). Our first boat did not really benefit much from any of the drag devices (she hove-to really really well), while our second one really liked a drogue - so it is somewhat boat dependent.

...............

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "I'm sure my Grampian can make it down the western coast to Mexico."

Really? On what do you base that opinion? A goodly number of experienced "blue-water" people have pointed out to you that it isn't so much the quality of the boat as it is the quality of the skipper that is important in the context we are discussing.

I gather you are in Vancouver. I therefore have two suggestions to make:

1) Take your cockleshell out into the Straits of Georgia. Head for Halibut Bank on a day when the 20,000 ton ferries twixt Tsawwassen and Duke Point cease operations cos the wind is enuff that the skipper cannot get the ferry into her slip safely. That happens not infrequently. Log in to the BC Ferries site. They issue notices about such things all the time. I've been dismasted on Halibut Bank in a Grampian 30, and that's WITHIN that enormous breakwater we call Vancouver Island! The person who helped me save the day- night, actually - and the ship was a 95 pound woman with more balls on her than the three other, male, crew members put together! So before you pull the lanyard on THIS suggestion make sure you call up Victoria Coastguard and let them know where you're gonna be. Never mind the tens of thousands of dollars it'll cost to send a chopper out from Comox to pick you up, or that you'll be putting other people's lives at risk!

2) Pop down to Granville Island and have a chat with the people at Cooper's sailing school. They will point you in the direction of members of the blue water fraternity. I no longer have connexions there, but Cooper's is the successor for the sailing school for which, when I was young and callow, I used to teach.

TP

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

How common are these bad squalls out there? Are they a regular occurrence or does luck and season play a big factor in?

Evans has given you good info. Squalls and heavy weather are generally seasonal and regional. Small, localized tropical tradewinds squalls are very common, but as long as you can handle a doubling of windspeed for an hour they're not too bad. Obviously hurricanes are a big deal, but these are seasonal and with radio weatherfax or other means of getting WX info you should see these coming in enough time to get away from the worst of it.

My oceangoing experience is limited to many mainland US - Hawaii trips, coastal trips between southern California and the Canadian border, and some south pacific passages (on a friend's boat). By far the worst conditions we've experienced have been within 50 miles of the California / Oregon border. I've got some photos and windspeed info from that trip on my blog: The Friday Harbor to San Francisco Delivery in Pictures « VALIS

That heavy weather zone we sailed through is well known and fairly well forecast (we saw worse than the forecast, but that should not have been a surprise).

Talk to the Vic-Maui racers about your route. These folks leave Victoria (Vancouver Island) and sail directly to Hawaii. Their track usually goes well offshore of the gale region I sailed through.

And put me in the camp of those who suggest that you should have significant experience before setting out solo on a small boat intending to make a very long passage. You should consider crewing on some deliveries.

[Souzag818]

No, a Catalina 25 is still not an ocean boat....If I can steer you in a different direction , since you're on the West coast, and want to go to Mexico first, consider the Coho Ho Ho and the Baja Haha. One goes from the PNW to San Diego, the other from San Diego to Cabo, and both are primarily rally's for non-experienced sailors who need a little pushing. You'll can gain a wealth of knowledge and experience without the expense of a large(er) boat, and see if you're really cut out for the whole ocean thing. Granted, I think being in the ocean is safer and easier than coastal cruising for the most part (less hard stuff to hit, less currents-unless you're sailing in the 10 knots our "friends" experienced). By the time you get to Cabo, you'll have met so many like minded people and have had experiences that will help you make an educated decision. Don't know how old of a man you are, but I did a BHH at 59 on a Hylas 44 with a friend who had never been on the ocean, and had a great experience. There's a May every year, and if it takes you a couple of them to get to the point of safely sailing to the Philippines single handed, as you have expressed the desire to, that's life. Good luck

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

Thanks again for the help. I've browsed the list and I've searched all morning 1000 miles around me. Unfortunately I can't find anything on that list up for sale yet. Doesn't mean there isn't I'm just not seeing it. I still have a few months as I can't do much in the winter up here. So I can continue shopping around.

I did however find a C&C 27 Mark 1 in my price range and not far from me. Engine rebuilt and a ton of upgrades. Would probably save me money in the long run since he's replaced most of the rigging and lines this past year. She's not on his list but it is a heavier displacement boat with a much heavier keel. I was reading up on it and a lot of people are saying she's a strong boat with good handle in bad weather. A couple forum posts were saying she is definitely sea worthy. Any opinions on this?

It also comes with a trailer which is a big plus for me. I know a lot of people are saying trailered sailboats aren't ocean cruisers but again on a budget I don't have thousands of dollars to ship a boat to the west coast. If it isn't there all ready and I can't tow it myself it's out of the question. Not to mention anything untrailerable is probably 30'+ and well out of my small budget.

First off, yes, you WILL need a self-steering vane. An electric autopilot (AP) is good too of course, but the windvane will be doing the majority of the work for you, especially on a small boat where you may not be generating a lot. The C&C27 MK1 is a step in the right direction but IMO still not there yet. Personally I don't like spade rudders for a cruising boat. Racing, yes, cruising, no. It can be a weak point at a point that really should not be weak. The C&C is on the light side too. But getting a boat with a trailer is a good idea for you because I'd say it is a better plan for you to trailer her down to San Francisco first to start the trip south. Hang in there in your search. Are you in a rush? Don't rush this thing (though I know WELL the bug you have caught!) I'd really like to see you get more sea-time especially in different kinds of boats in a variety of conditions. It will inform your choices better and give you more confidence about your abilities and a boat's abilities when you see videos of stormy weather. As bad as that video may look, you might notice that the boat is actually handling it very well and is not sinking. (BTW that is a very nice old-school design) A good boat can handle much more than we can, thankfully.
In your search you might be surprised to find there are very good boats, in good shape, close to your budget... and sellers always are willing to bargain...
A boat like mine is probably a good choice on a trailer, it is about as large as you can go without extra permits and a truck that can tow 10,000# could do it. There was one for sale down in San Diego, on a trailer, that was in the middle of a refit when the owner had to give it up. Anyway, my advice is get more sailing in, save up a little more cash and don't forget that a boat needs a cash flow, like we all do. It is a living thing. If you blow all your money on a great boat and then have no cash flow, the trip will be over in a hurry.
There was a Yankee 26 down here that was on a trailer in good shape. Little Yanmar diesel that was in good shape. That is a very good little boat. That would definitely be one I'd consider. This one had been sailed up from Panama. the owner had 3 other boats and just wanted to get rid of her. I think she sold for 2000, with the trailer (but the trailer was kind of rusty.) The new owner spent a couple weeks in the yard cleaning her up and painting her and now she's out cruising around here. So these good deals do come up from time to time...

[TheThunderbird]

Drop out the SAT iPhone and the fridge, 2 batteries cant wear it.

No other electronics than GPS (2) VHF and 2 eco-sounder (a 2nd spare that you can operate out of board).
I would wear a portable EPIRB 24/7, and set up a Lifeline, whatever small is the boat.

Think of raising the cockpit fence with (removable?) plywood sheets!

Consider Fortress as a light anchor, but at least 25 to 30#. At a minimum, a second anchor, keep current one as nr,3.

Chain be say 100' on a 1/4" is approx. 1kg/m or65# overall. You can keep it low and amidship.

In terms of NEEDED luxury, buy the best foul weather gear you can afford, including the (imo) best PDF by spinlock (it has a HOOD, and of course inflates automatically.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

In terms of NEEDED luxury, buy the best foul weather gear you can afford, including the (imo) best PDF by spinlock (it has a HOOD, and of course inflates automatically.

hmmm . . . . think about this a bit more for the OP's situation, singlehanded ocean crossing . . . . pretty much all a life jacket will do is prolong your agony as you watch your boat sail over the horizon . . . . in that situation you REALLY need to stay on/with the boat.

And foul weather gear for the south pacific is a bathing suit (or not lol)