Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-04-2010, 05:56   #1
Registered User
 
markpj23's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Black Hills, SD
Boat: Now Boatless
Posts: 1,148
Images: 47
Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

OK so I have a B&G autopilot system that I'm generally happy with. A few weeks ago the ram leaked out all its fluid so it was time to rebuild. Here's your basic Type 1 B&G ram:


Can't be all that complicated - a couple of seals and we should be good to go, right?

Start of rant........

B&G seal kit: $460.00!!

Outrageous - I'm going to find an alternative! Shopped around and delivered to a national hydraulics repair shop in Miami. They can rebuild anything, make whatever seals are non-standard, etc. Welll....... not so much. When they disassembled it and spec'd the seals, their price to make new was almost exactly the price from B&G.

What could possibly cost so much? Are the bits made from unobtanium or something??

So I bit the bullet and bought the seal kit. Here's what is in it - can you believe this??


It's just a simple hydraulic ram fer chrissake. How can you engineer a simple push-pull cylinder to require all this??

Next time I'll replace the ram with a simple reversible hydraulic pump and an off the shelf cylinder - likely for less than the cost of repairing this one.

UGH!
__________________

__________________
Mark
markpj23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 06:20   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240
All those seals - and still, it leaked ...
Sorry, I shouldn't make light of your pain.
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 07:56   #3
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
outrageous indeed. please keep us in the loop in terms of your search for an alternative.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 07:57   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
bstreep's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Port Aransas, TX
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,274
I feel your pain. We have some B & G instruments on the boat. They are ancient, and replacements are just insane. For the cost of 2 lousy monochrome, 20/20 displays (they just display the speed and source - that's it!), I could replace the whole wind system.
__________________
Bill Streep
San Antonio/Port Aransas, TX
bstreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 08:16   #5
Registered User
 
cdennyb's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern California
Boat: finally a catamaran dive boat...
Posts: 505
Send a message via MSN to cdennyb Send a message via Yahoo to cdennyb Send a message via Skype™ to cdennyb
did you check "harbor Freight" ? (sorry LoL) I have a 25 ton wood splitter ram that's only $370.00 replacement and it's 15 years old without a single drop of fluid leaking out in all that time. Hmmm, you'd think they'd come up with something a little better huh?
__________________
the perfect dive boat is one you're on...
cdennyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:37   #6
Registered User
 
markpj23's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Black Hills, SD
Boat: Now Boatless
Posts: 1,148
Images: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
I feel your pain. We have some B & G instruments on the boat. They are ancient, and replacements are just insane. For the cost of 2 lousy monochrome, 20/20 displays (they just display the speed and source - that's it!), I could replace the whole wind system.
Exactly! The only good news for me was that you can still buy replacement wind sensors from Defender. Previous boat had the ST-50 stuff and NO replacements for those wind sensors are available now.

Boat bucks add up quickly.....
__________________
Mark
markpj23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:46   #7
Moderator... short for Cat Wrangler
 
sarafina's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 28 Flush Deck
Posts: 5,559
Images: 56
I don't even have to read the posts to answer this one.

YES!

; -}
__________________
Sara

ain't what ya do, it's the way that ya do it...
sarafina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 11:19   #8
Registered User
 
Jetexas's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Boat: 1982 Oday 34
Posts: 439
Images: 10
If you haven't already put it back together, take all those seals, springs and ball bearings to an Ace Hardware. Most of them are available there for just a few cents each. You can probably put yourself together another kit for backup.
__________________
Jetexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 13:01   #9
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
I feel your pain. We have some B & G instruments on the boat. They are ancient, and replacements are just insane. For the cost of 2 lousy monochrome, 20/20 displays (they just display the speed and source - that's it!), I could replace the whole wind system.
The 20/20 displays will display any information in the B&G system eg depth speed wind angle VMG etc (at least with the H3000).
At anchor for example I switch one display over to battery voltage so I can see outside when the solar panels are regulating.
Yes its more expensive than Raymarine, but if you see the 2 side by side you can see where the money has gone in better build quality glass bonded displays etc

That is an expensive set of O rings though.
.
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 15:01   #10
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Buy parts for hydraulic steering and just add the pump from the AP manufacturer, or select industrial parts for that too. It's as simple as you describe it is (reversible polarity motor).

You will need a solenoid valve (or manual valve with morse-cable) to disable the hydraulics for hand steering.

cheers,
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 15:44   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: Little Harbor Whisperjet 40
Posts: 334
It's a bit simple to say it's just a cylinder.
From the looks of it. You have a motor, a pump, control valves and a cylinder plus hoses etc. All packaged in a compact unit.

If you all would quit whining for a second. There is probably just one seal that is leaking. Take it apart, measure housing ID and shaft OD as well as the width of the seal. Then go to a bearing distributer or industrial supply house. Cost 10 or 20 bucks, maybe.
__________________
Highlander40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 17:00   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,114
Boats and show horses--the 2 largest consumers of wealth, with the smallest returns
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 18:09   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Go for an off the shelf ram. Vetus or something like this. Will buy the whole thing together with the handles for the price of those gaskets.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 19:42   #14
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
agh yes B&G, vastly overpriced for what you get these days. Junk it and start again
__________________
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2010, 07:44   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tennessee/Florida
Boat: Mariner 40/IP 37-30
Posts: 97
B&G Pilot

We just crossed from Key West to Ft Myers Beach Monday/Tuesday.
My B&G Pilot went out as we were encountering pitch black night, 25-30kt winds and rough confused seas. It was a real joy hand steering all night.

It is good to see that there is a fix available, even though it is not inexpensive.
What is the source for you repair kit?
I can't seem to find anything online.

Thanks,
Wm Mayberry
OPTIMYSTIQUE
IP 37-30

Bradenton, FL
__________________

__________________
Wmiii is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engineer

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rant! doug86 Off Topic Forum 21 01-02-2010 00:24
A Rant About Brokers shawnkillam Multihull Sailboats 107 16-05-2009 07:30
First Time as Engineer sloopz The Sailor's Confessional 6 24-02-2008 01:18
This is a Rant... didn't see a section for it elsewhere... ssullivan General Sailing Forum 17 17-06-2005 23:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.